The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Oven and spring

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browndog's picture
browndog

Oven and spring

vienna rye w/ beer & cardamom

Yesterday was a spring day so pretty it made your heart hurt, sunny after days of storm, air so sweet and gentle on your skin it made you feel five years old. I baked a Vienna rye to use up leftover beer (yes, leftover beer) and tried my hand at pain rustique, which other people have dispatched so credibly around here. Having also lately tiptoed into Ciabatta territory, I'm amazed to find myself not utterly defeated by these somewhat wetter doughs, in fact there's a real charm to their water-balloon nature. Like picking up worms or climbing on a plane, I feel I've faced a demon and survived. Texture and consistent results are still birds in the bush but this handful of feathers has got me feeling jaunty..

 

 

 

 

 

Comments

tattooedtonka's picture
tattooedtonka

Beautiful words....Congratulations on your wonderful bread.  And as usual, very nice backgrounds on your photos (even got the dog).

 

TT

weavershouse's picture
weavershouse

My lilacs are long gone and I miss them, as usual, till next Spring. The bread looks delicious. How did you like the Pain Rustique...the process and the taste? And the rye looks so good too. What recipe did you use? Great job!  weavershouse

browndog's picture
browndog

last long enough, weavershouse, so I try to keep the house as full of them both as possible! Ha- the pain rustique is something I shunned til you and TT posted such good-looking photos that I had to try it, that is truly the only reason I decided to see what I could do. In fact I LOVE the process, despite my initial huge reluctance, and I'm very unsure about what or how I'm doing, but once I stopped wanting wet dough to behave like 'regular' dough, I began to really enjoy it. I'm a complete neophyte--only 2 Ciabatta attempts and this which isn't even that wet, I think, so I don't have much to compare and no competence at all. But just trying was a huge hurdle. The taste? Honestly, I find it...a little salty! I'm not sure if that's operator error, and I wasn't about to ask for input (can you see that? ...My bread tastes salty, what do you guys think? Duh.) I thought it didn't have quite as to-die-for a flavor as I've found in Hamelman's Rustic Bread, maybe a little got lost in the translation, but we cleaned up most of a loaf with dinner that night so no complaints. The rye is from Hensperger's Bread Bible, supposed to have been a rye/potato twist but I was only up for the one to use up beer. 3 C ap, 1 c rye, the beer and a tablespoon of cardamom, tender and very interesting flavor, I'm perfectly content there. Thanks!

  • And thanks to all you guys for the sweet remarks!
weavershouse's picture
weavershouse

My Hamelman's book finally came after a very long wait from Amazon so now I don't have to go to the pdf. I'm going to try his Rustic Bread and hope for the "to-die-for flavor. Wish me luck.                                                                                        weavershouse

tattooedtonka's picture
tattooedtonka

You will notice in his book he has a Pain Rustique, and a Rustic Bread.  They are about two pages away from each other with the country bread recipe in between.  I have the Pain Rustique poolish started tonight for baking Thurs. night.

I think this is a great book, just wish I had more time to try more of the recipes. 

TT

weavershouse's picture
weavershouse

It took Amazon forever to send my book out so I've just started looking through it. I checked out the Rustic Bread recipe and I'm hoping I can do this one without a mixer. I don't have a mixer and I don't think you do either, am I right? Have you ever tried the Rustic Bread by hand? The recipe calls for tearing off pieces of the preferment and adding them to the mixer. Sounds like it would be hard to mix in such a stiff dough by hand.     

It's 11:15 pm here and I'm tempted to put together something to bake tomorrow even though I DON'T NEED ANY MORE BREAD, the freezer is full. Let me know if you've made the Rustic. 

Meanwhile I'm enjoying your posts with JMonkey. Thanks for the laughs!

Browndog5 did you use a mixer to make your Rustic Bread?                                                                                                   weavershouse

browndog's picture
browndog

I don't own one, either. The preferment is stiff-ish, but it's not too hard to work with, just get your 'squishing' muscles revved and the dough evens out before long. It really was not any sort of a problem, go for it! Now, in the interest of covering my nether regions, when I said to-die-for I meant it, but since it's not chocolate cake it's easier to maintain your dignity around. I've made it three times, it keeps getting better, and the last time I was saying to myself, "WoW!"

 

  • Good luck TT! I expect to see a set of beautiful pictures documenting your results!
Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Indeed.  :)  Mini Oven

kjknits's picture
kjknits

Pretty prose, and bread!

 Katie in SC 

zainaba22's picture
zainaba22

Great job

zainab

bwraith's picture
bwraith

Browndog5,

We've had spring weather, the "what you said" kind, down in NJ, too. How about you write my posts from now on? Anyway, nice photos, as always. Good to see you survived the ciabatta challenge, and what a nice job of it too.

Bill

browndog's picture
browndog

sure, I could substitute hyperbole, opacity and sometimes questionable taste (on almost anything but bread), for your accessible, interesting and relevant contributions. I could even do a New Jersey weather review...but I think your poll numbers would plummet and more than a few hearts would be broken. You're a sweetie just the same. Let me clarify that the bread in the photo is pain rustique--I have tried Glezer's Ciabatta twice, with imperfect but promising results. I thought, third time being a charm and all, that I'd try once more before I yelped for help, or burned toast at the altar of you Ciabatta gods, whatever.

I love the photos of the 'real' Marcel's grandmother's bread. A gift we can share across cultural and language barriers, it's really precious.

zolablue's picture
zolablue

Oh, my goodness, that almost makes my stomach hurt.  They are so beautiful and I love them sooooo much.  We have a huge hedge of them in the front yard - probably at least 80 feet and they did not bloom at all this year.  They are usually a neighborhood spectacle with gorgeous fragrance wafting across everyone's yards.  This year everything was budding out so early - end of March - and turning very green.  Then BOOM, we got about 10 days of lower to mid-20's and everything has changed.  It is so hard when you live in a brutal climate like we do and wait with rapt anticipation for the once-per-year blooms and then get nothing.  Sigh...

Your bread is very beautiful.  I would love to know the rye recipe.  Do you have it typed, by any chance?  It really sounds good and I've yet to make a rye loaf. 

I'm sorry you have had bad luck with ciabatta.  I thought the Glezer/Ponsford recipe was a great one so don't give up.  You are making some wonderful bread so you obviously know how to get it done!

browndog's picture
browndog

Weavershouse, and anyone else suffering lilac-deprivation...

Lilacs and for me...

DiamondFudge

Whew! Zolablue, here's the recipe. I'll tell you at the get-go, the coriander is not shy, but I don't think it's overpowering.

  • 1/2 c warm water
  • 2 tsp active dry yeast
  • 1 c flat beer, warmed slightly
  • 1 tbsp barley malt syrup
  • 1 large egg, room temp
  • 1 1/2 tsp salt
  • 1 tbsp ground coriander
  • 1 c medium rye flour
  • 3 c ap or bread flour

Proof yeast, combine ingredients, knead until smooth and springy, about 3 minutes. Let rise in greased container til doubled, about 1 1/2 hours. Gently deflate, shape, and let rise til almost doubled, about 40 minutes (I went an hour and still got hefty ovenspring.) oven at 450 degrees, 400 degrees if using a stone (? that's what it says. I didn't use a stone.) Mist with water, dust with flour, slash, bake 35-40 minutes til brown and crusty.

Zola, the original recipe is a twist with the other dough being an aniseseed/potato, If you are interested I will get that for you. I only made the rye. Oh, and about the Ciabatta, you mustn't think I had bad luck as such--I didn't expect that much the first time anyway, and the second time produced what was easily one of the nicest breads I have EVER made, it only lacked HOLES. It was a hard sell convincing my family that there was ANYTHING wrong Ciabatta crumbwith that bread, it tasted so good. Both times my biga wasn't having any of this tripling business, only something over doubled in 30 hours, so I just went with it. You think that might be the rub? I am not yet at all downcast!

weavershouse's picture
weavershouse

The photos are great. I went to your info page and see you're from Vermont. Lilacs and Vermont and dogs and horses! Not fair. I'm in Ohio and it's very nice but my heart is in Vermont. We go there when we can and love it but family is here and we love them more so we stay.   
We live in the farmhouse where Father John L. Fiala grew up. He's a priest who wrote the huge Lilac tome LILACS: THE GENUS SYRINGA. Do you know when we moved here there was not one lilac, we had to plant them. Someone did come by who lived here at one time and they said the farm had a beautiful yellow lilac. I never did plant a yellow one. I like my lilacs...lilac.    
Thanks for the info about the Rustic Bread. So glad to hear you did it by hand. I'm going to start it tonight...I hope.                                                                                                                                                                                                 weavershouse

browndog's picture
browndog

sound wonderful--I didn't know there was such a thing! Funny Father John's own house didn't come with lilacs. I spent the first 11 years of my life in suburban Cincinnati--not exactly pastoral Ohio. Any farmhouse there had better duck cus the bulldozers were ready for it. Where do you visit in Vermont?

zolablue's picture
zolablue

WOW - those are beautiful photos!  I see a brown dog and...is that...could that be a unicorn?  :o)  Really, that does help to see your lovely lilacs as I look out onto my huge 10-foot high barren one.  I love purple so much anyway and lilacs are absolutely one of the most wonderful flowers of all.  The fragrance.  I think I do remember it.  (lol)

Thanks a bunch for posting the recipe.  You mentioned cardamom above - what did you put that into?  Thought it was the rye.  Cardamom would certainly be interesting in bread. 

I love potato bread but not sure I would like the anise in it.   I just baked Hamelman's roasted potato bread - OMG!!!  That is delicious bread!  It is the first time I roasted potatoes for bread rather than boiil them.  Yum.

I have no idea on the ciabatta why the poolish did not triple.  I'm too new to figure some of those things out.   I find that if I have bread that doesn't quite do what I think it should it still tastes fantastic and sounds like yours did.

browndog's picture
browndog

Sorry, Zolablue, I did say cardamom when I should have said coriander. As it happens James Beard has a recipe for Swedish Limpa rye that I've made many many times and LOVE, if I'd remembered it I might've made this with my leftover beer that day:

Swedish Limpa (Beard on Bread)

  • 1 package active dry yeast
  • 1/4 c warm water
  • 2 c ale or beer, lukewarm
  • 1/4-1/2 c honey
  • 2 tbsp melted butter
  • 2 tsp salt
  • 1 tsp ground cardamom
  • 1 tbsp caraway seed or 3/4 tsp aniseed, crushed
  • 2 tbsp fresh grated orange peel
  • 2 1/2 c rye flour
  • 3 c ap flour

Proof yeast, combine with ale, honey, butter and salt, stir well. Add spices and orange peel. Mix rye and white flours together, and add three cups of this mixture to the liquid mixture. Beat hard with a wooden spoon. Cover and let rise in a warm place 45 minutes to an hour. Stir down and add enough flour to get a workable but still sticky dough. Knead til smooth and elastic. Place in greased bowl, let rise til double, 45 minutes to an hour. Deflate, shape into 1 or 2 balls and place on a greased baking sheet. Brush with butter and cover loosely with plastic wrap. Refrigerate at least two, preferably 3 hours. Let sit at room temperature 15 minutes. Bake at 375, 1 hour for the large loaf, 40-45 minutes for the smaller ones.


Zola, I have never retarded this bread, but that's just me in a hurry and nervous about refrigerating dough in general. I have also made it successfuly without the first 'rest' period or whatever it is, again, me in a hurry. Really nice sweet, spicy, fun little rye, though. As to my Ciabatta, you're a Ciabatta goddess so you get to speculate, didn't you know? I did make a biga (firm) not a poolish, and my poolishes always seem to chug merrily along. I'll try that, it's what you did anyway, right? Oh, and yes, that is a unicorn, he lives out back in a gingerbread barn. His name is Twinkles. (Not really! He is a unicorn, but that's not his name...:D)

 

Hamelman's Roasted Potato list has been on my 'to try' list forever. I will use your recommendation for motivation!

zolablue's picture
zolablue

Thank you so much for that recipe as well.  It sounds divine!  My mother has been asking me to keep an eye out for a great rye bread recipe as well so I'll share these both with her, too.  Many thanks.

You really crack me up.  I love the sense of humor.  And the unicorn.  (I need one of those.)

Btw, please do try and refrigerate your dough.  I have done it with bulk dough and shaped loaves.  I love doing it with shaped loaves because you wake up the next morning with this incredible feeling of knowing you're about to bake bread and all the work has been done the day before.  You simply remove it from the fridge, let it warm up and proof a couple hours or so, slash and bake.  There is nothing quite like the feeling that gives you and guaranteed to put a smile on your face!

I've never made bread with any beer yet so wondering if it matters which type I use?  Does it matter to use a light or dark or stronger one?  Probably not my favorite, Coors Light?  (lol)

browndog's picture
browndog

I'm glad the recipes look promising to you, pretty neat that you get to share bread-baking with your mom. The limpa called for ale or beer, so I suppose a dark beer would possibly overpower its sweet spicy nature, I could be wrong. I use ale or regular beer for this bread, stout in the other, and I have another rye recipe that specifies stout. You know what? I bet Coors Lite would do just fine, because it's not the alcohol you're after anyway, flavor first and foremost. I doubt it matters much in the end really. One thing I've sometimes noticed in bread with a significant beer content is that the first day it smells and even tastes a little as if you could get drunk on it (well, not quite, but still...) especially if you toast it, but after that it mellows nicely. About retarding dough--I've seen so many beautiful loaves here that first were refrigerated for hours, I guess I better dust the cobwebs off my brain and reevaluate--again. And I was at the co-op a little bit ago and saw a bag of Red Mills is it? graham flour, thought immediately of Memo's brown bread, and took it home. Funny I find myself taking you guys shopping....I haven't made her bread yet, but I will!

Important detail! I should have included in the Limpa recipe that you'll need up to a cup more ap flour for kneading! SORRY!

zolablue's picture
zolablue

I was almost afraid to sign on today.  I wanted to report I passed those recipes to my mother and she was so excited especially the one with the orange - she loves anything with orange.  She was telling me she used to make a rye bread with orange years ago.  I think I'm going to try and bake that one over the weekend.  Thanks for the beer info.  Now I just have to figure out a way to get any "extra" flat beer. 

Thanks so much of thinking about Memo's brown bread.  The flour is Hodgson Mills graham.  I have been giving one of my loaves to my neighbors when I bake this and they are telling me it is their favorite of all my breads - go figure!  My neighbor told me I simply MUST made French toast with it.  Anyway, good to help make people happy with nothing more than a beautiful loaf of home baked bread.

Thanks for the update on flour for kneading!  I would probably have not added it as I can't learn how to not keep my doughs almost dripping.  :o)

KipperCat's picture
KipperCat

Oh my!  I grew up with lilacs, and really miss them.  Texas is just not lilac country though. Fortunately this is horse country.  I don't have one, but see some beauties while driving. 

As for bread, do you think coriander makes a better rye than caraway? Any comments on how the tastes compare?

browndog's picture
browndog

I feel a little time-warped.. This was all so intensely spring, but now the lilacs are just so many green bushes, and my legs are covered in scratches because the raspberries are here. My finely-honed psychic intuition tells me you may have cats if not horses..?

Anyway, as to coriander versus caraway, I don't think either is better, the coriander is a 'sweeter' spice I think, and a little exotic because I don't use it often, whereas caraway seems to be so intimately tied to rye for me that any loaf at all with caraway in it instantly becomes rye, just because... but I like them both A LOT, and really just choose according to mood.

KipperCat's picture
KipperCat

A definite yes on the cats.  How did you ever guess? :)  Though my namesake led a long and happy life, he is gone now. We do have two darling girls who have adopted some of his quirks now that he's no longer with us all.

mountaindog's picture
mountaindog

Beautiful loaves, lilacs, and crumb Browndog! They look really great, and great ears on your bread too!

tattooedtonka's picture
tattooedtonka

Browndog is your horse an Arabian?  Kinda looks like it, but Im not sure.  If it is, I would then say, ah hah, that explains a bunch. Great photos, and your dog looks so much smarter than my two put together.

Weavershouse, I do not have a mixer.  Everything is done by hand round here.  At times, I wish it maybe wasnt that way, but overall I dont have many issues.  If they could do it in the old days, theres no reason I cant today.  At least I have electricity and air conditioning.

My crazy poolish for the Pain Rustique grew pretty nice.  I was staring at it thinking, gosh I really dont want to fire up the oven again.  I baked bagels and bread till about 1am.  Just to get up at 6 and finish boiling and baking my second dozen, and baking my two loaves of french bread I had setting in the fridge overnight.  Oh well, maybe it can set in the fridge another day......

TT

tattooedtonka's picture
tattooedtonka

How many are you currently housing?  I believe you mentioned in the past that yours are rescue dogs?  Maybe Im mistaken.

My Sasha girl was from a Rescue.  She is half Husky/ half Shepard.  About 3 years old, sweet as pie, fast as a gazelle, and scared of her own shadow.

Tonka,Tonka is Husky/Dumb Husky/Malamute.  He is not from a rescue, I rescued him myself from a dying litter a family had.  He had to have blood transfusions at 6 weeks because he was riddled from worms that were consuming all his blood supply.  Now at 1 year old, he is big as a pony, dumb as rock, with the appetite of a starving bear after hybernation.

No others at this time, my king size bed is cramped with all of us as it is.

TT 

browndog's picture
browndog

Husky/Dumb Husky? I'm not familiar with that breed...I knew someone who often referred to his Warmblood (horse) as Dumb-blood...but what gorgeous critters, truly. Not my first dog, but my first WONDERFUL dog, was a Shepherd/Husky, Shusky as we liked to say. She looked very similar to Sasha but where Sasha is grey/black, our Holly was black black. She was such an extraordinary dog (who lived to be 17 1/2, and was swimming 4 days before she died) that I've often thought I could feature another of that mix, but 15 years ago I discovered Chesapeake Bay Retrievers and can't let go. My current three dogs are all from a Chessy rescue org. in Maine, our latest, the fellow w/ the lilacs (Fudge, we didn't name him...) came in November, a Chessy/Lab who turned 13 last month.

>Browndog is your horse an Arabian? Kinda looks like it, but Im not sure. If it is, I would then say, ah hah, that explains a bunch.

TT, I said, he's a UNICORN! Granted you might take him for an Arabian unicorn and not be far off the mark...What I'm REALLY curious about is...what sort of bunch does that explain? Do Arabian keepers have a rep I should know about? Uh-oh...

Thanks again for sharing your guys. I love your baking, but it doesn't have such appealing eyes and fur just beggin' to be stroked...seriously lucky dogs.

P.S. Vocabulary quiz at eleven, TT...

bluezebra's picture
bluezebra

lifestyle envy! Your yard, horse, dog, bread, photos, lilacs are all lovely! I'm drooling. My hubby says you won't adopt us even if you could...

Just my luck. *sniff*

browndog's picture
browndog

well, bluezebra, it's clear I'm an animal person...zebras, huh? How many of you are there?

bluezebra's picture
bluezebra

hehe!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

And unicorn  UNI CORN  could mean Whole Grain.  Did it start out grey and turn white?  :)  Mini Oven

browndog's picture
browndog

Ha! Yes, he did! Actually he was born BROWN, shed out to a beautiful dapple grey, and has got whiter and whiter every year, he's 17 in July. And he does LOVE his oats. I'll tell him you thought he was a Lipizzaner--he'll feel very impressed with himself. Nothing so elegant or well-trained, I'm afraid.

tattooedtonka's picture
tattooedtonka

Some moons ago I worked with a fellow who had Arabians, and American Quarter Horses.  I spent a great deal of time with him and his horses, and learned quite a bit.  I soon found out how Energetic, Frisky, and High Spirited these horses could be.  Where the Quarter Horses were more keen to just hang out, and play a little, the Arabians would throw their tail up high, kick their head back and start prancing about just on a whim.  They would play, and jump, and kick about just having a ball. 

They were very much like my friend, 'cept the jumping and kicking part.  Oh yeah and the tail part.  But you know what Im trying to say.  When I would travel to shows with him I would find most folks who had Arabians were also very spirited.  They were not the easiest of animals to work with, or to train, but the rewards were so very worth the effort.  Because they are not just a laid back type of horse, alot of folks seem to shy away from them. 

I find that same kind of spirit in the way you post.  Its very refreshing.  As odd, as it may have sounded at the time.  "Thats explains alot", was a compliment.

 

Oh yeah, and Im not quite ready for the vocabulary quiz yet, all my pens need to be sharpened.  And my pencils are all out of ink.... ;-)

TT 

browndog's picture
browndog

>As odd, as it may have sounded at the time.

Don't ever fret about me--it takes some doing for me to miss a joke! And frankly I'm extremely proud of my tail... Thanks for the kind words, I'm never one to shun a compliment, even if it makes me blush...How neat that you're familiar with horses, and in particular Arabians. Certainly they have a well-deserved rep for 'hot blood', but this little guy is pretty agreeable, and of my (3) horses he is the most personable and, well, dog-like. Now, what about that poolish?