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My first fruit water/yeast water starter, some questions...

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cranbo's picture
cranbo

My first fruit water/yeast water starter, some questions...

After being intrigued for a while about it, decided to give it a shot this evening. 

  • 1 organic Fuji apple, washed, cored and chopped
  • 2 tbsp raisins
  • 1 tbsp dried cranberries
  • Enough water to just cover
I put everything in a plastic quart container, on top of the fridge, at about 915pm this evening, Day 0.So is that it? Just fruit and water? Nothing else necessary? 

Two questions:

  1. how often should I feed it, and what do I feed it? Do I need to feed it on the same kind of intervals as I do for sourdough starters (i.e., 2x per day)?
  2. Also, are the effects of refrigerating a fruit water starter the same as sourdough (slowing of yeast & bacterial activity)?

 

Comments

cranbo's picture
cranbo

Not much activity...swished it around a few times. 

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hi Cranbo,


Did you see some bubbles around the fruit when you added and shook the jar?


Are you keeping the jar at 82F around?


Could you shake the jar hard to see how much bubbles coming out?   I will suggest you to shake the jar hard as many times as you can to get your yeast water active.  It will more sugar coming out from the fruit by shaking if it is not active.


The temperature is the most important. How do you keep your yeast water warm?


One more thing:


I have never tried to make mixed fruit yeast water from begining. I have  made the yeast water that I added one kind of fresh fruit and  a spoonful old yeast water and some water in the jar.  I saw one of other TFL members made the kind of mixed fruit yeast water.  I think that you saw that, too.


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23348/my-japanese-sandwich-loaf#comment-167795


Best wishes,


Akiko


 

cranbo's picture
cranbo

thanks for the feedback Akiko.


No, I didn't see any bubbles yet when I shook the jar. Not surprising, because I think it will probably take 4-5 days at least for the fruit + water to start fermenting. 


My room temp is around 77F right now, which might be good enough, although I probably should keep the fruit water warmer. Time to go invest in a box, and some kind of thermostat + heater. 


When I get home, I'll shake the jar more vigorously, and will be sure to shake it vigorously at least 2x per day. 

RonRay's picture
RonRay

I have been trying to write a summary of possible helpful info on Yeast Water. It may be a tomorrow, but certainly should be posted within a day or two.


Check your PM and I'll make you an offer.


But just a couple of points on what you used:


1/ dried cranberries (Were they untreated? Even pure, they are very low natural sugar sources, so not of too much use.)


2/ raisin, (same question - check the box, if you can. Often pressure washed, if not oiled, etc.)


3/ organic Fuji apple, washed, cored and chopped (that sounds excellent... except for the "washed". The only reason to include the skin is to get the wild yeast that attach to the skin. The reason to go for the "organic" is to not have the wild yeast killed by the insecticides. But if you then wash them off....)


Check you PM TFL message flags.


Ron

cranbo's picture
cranbo

Got it, thanks Ron, very nice write-up.


To answer your questions:


1. The cranberries are the dried Ocean Spray variety. I believe cranberries and sugar are the only listed ingredients, but I'm going off the top of my head, so I'll check at home. 


2. Raisins are Sun-Maid. The only ingredient listed there is "raisins", no oil, sugar, etc. The raisins themselves are a little dry, and the natural sugars had started to crystallize out of them. 


3. The apple was just gently washed. I suspect that if there are yeasts on there anyway, and my gentle washing wouldn't have washed them away any more than the rain washes them away from the skin when they're on a tree. But we'll see :)


 


 

RonRay's picture
RonRay

Sounds reasonable enough. I'd forget the cranberries (for the YW, and eat them straight, if it were me ;-) I do like them all by themselves. Actually, I'd have gone with either the apple (Fuji apple I find excellent) for long term type of YW, or the raisins (never used the Ocean Spray, but I know that Sun-Maid will work).


From earlier posts of yours, I believe you have sourdough, so you could always jump-start your YW culture, if it gets to that point, but you should be okay in a few days.


The fruit-water heading threw me at first. One of the reasons it's called Yeast Water in not just the fact that the Japanese name is "mizu shu", but also the fact that vegetables work just as well as fruit, except that more sugar is required.


Anyway, I hope the draft helps. Good luck.


Ron

cranbo's picture
cranbo

Thanks Ron, I'll keep you posted. 


I want to try to keep it purely as fruit water/yeast water, without jumpstarting it from a sourdough, but I will do that if I have to...later :)


 

RonRay's picture
RonRay

You have another PM, also...


Ron

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

I've been doing a lot of reading on this subject for the last couple of nights, thanks to the help of Ron and Akiko.  I'm also trying to see if I can make some raisin yeast water tonighit (actually I'm using sultanas and wonder if it will work just the same)   I'll be keeping a close eye on your progress and hopefully I can learn something from your experienice.  I too have some questions re levain and the ratio but will keep this until my water is ready and successful. , 


@ RonRay,  thank you very much for sending me the link to your apple yeast water.  I responded immediately but I think it have gotten lost in cyberspace due to a poor internet connection my end.  The same applied to a post in response to Akiko and this was also lost.   I hope I have better luck withi this one. 


Good luck with your yeast water...


Judy


I tried to post a pic of the yeast water that I've just made up using 100 grms of sultana and a few pcs of apple but the "browse" icon is not responding at all.

RonRay's picture
RonRay

I missed this before, sorry to be late acknowledging it, Judy.


Ron

cranbo's picture
cranbo

Feeling impatient, I decided to "cheat" a little this morning. After feeding my sourdough starters, I used the stirring chopstick that had a little remnant of starter on there just to swish through the fruit yeast water about 5 times. Shook it up again.


I'm just being impatient this morning, hopefully this will kick-start fermentation.  

RonRay's picture
RonRay

Do keep us updated on your YW's progress ;-)


Ron

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

and it will pay off.


I just began doing this too and I didn't know about the temp. range so my raisins just sat at room temp. (65 -70° range) and I only added a bit of honey at the beginning.  It took mine 4-5 days but it did work!


I started an apple one but when I emulsified the apples it never recovered :-(  so I tossed it.  Tonight I cut up another apple and am trying it again but I spiked it with my RYW.


I know spiking works because I did it on a new RYW and I had bubbles in less tha 24 hours!


Have fun and remember to let your jar have air.....there are warnings about explosions from too much pressure building up in tightly closed jars....


We do want to keep fatalities to a minimum  :-)


Janetcook

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi cranbo,


Good to hear that you are finding this type of yeast interesting!


My own raisin water took about 4 days to get going and this is normal although some are speedier. Yours will probably gee up in a few days.


In one of the Japanese texts that Akiko translated it said to raise the temperature to 30C at one point in the process. I did this by using water at 30C at the very beginning. A slight increase in heat might speed activity, as long as it does not go above 40-very 50C.


Once cultivated, RWY tends to be robust. I find that I don't need to feed mine daily, as I so my sourdough starter. Every 3 days is enough for mine, although they differ.


You can feed fruit, honey, sugar or fruit scraps. Fruit and water is generally enough to produce yeast. The mixture only needs a 'snack' (say a dessertspoon or less), of raisins to keep going once it is fermented. 


My observation is that my RWY did slow down somewhat when it was refrigerated briefly during the recent, really hot (40C), spell in the UK, but not as much as my sourdough starters, which are not cold tolerant.


Wishing you happy fruit yeast baking! Daisy_A

cranbo's picture
cranbo

Last night I added 1 tbsp of one of my active sourdough starters to the mix. Don't know if it's because of this, but this morning it has definitely been bubbly. A quick whiff revealed floury fruitiness, with a hint of the same kind of bright effervescence when you smell sparkling wine. 


Looking at the bottom (where some of the fruit has settled), you can make out some little bubbles, although due to the flour the mix is kinda cloudy right now. I'm sure subsequent feedings will help resolve this.


The chopped apple pieces are still mostly floating at the top. 


I think it's coming along nicely. 

RonRay's picture
RonRay

Some of the cloudyness may well be flour from the SD.


Ron

cranbo's picture
cranbo

Definitely more bubbles this afternoon! I could hear the loose-fitting lid on the mason jar squeaking, and bubbles popping to the surface. I anticipate that by tomorrow or Sunday, it should be very active. 


I poured off a few tablespoons of the liqued into a 2nd container, added about 3 tablespoons of raisins and warm water, mixed it up and set it aside to do a raisin yeast water.

teketeke's picture
teketeke

I like the idea of making new raisin yeast water using another jump-start! 


Best wishes,


Akiko

RonRay's picture
RonRay

Thanks for the updates. A second pure raisin YW is another good way to get the method down, and to see differences in the various alternatives.


Ron

cranbo's picture
cranbo

Ahh...vigorous bubbling now in the original fruit-yeast water (apple-raisin-cranberry) now. I'm sure it helped that I set the mason jar that I have it in on top of a warm stove. I fed it 1/2 of a peeled Granny Smith apple. 

Took a taste of the fruit yeast water, tastes pretty fresh!

I took about a tablespoon or 2, put it in a small glass and mixed it with bread flour. We'll see how long it takes to double. 

Raisin yeast water is doing well too; some tiny bubbles on the edges, not bubbling throughout yet (no surprise there). Again, it had a head start, so I imagine it will work faster. 

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

Will you be posting some pics to show us see your progress?  Judy

cranbo's picture
cranbo

Day 10: all of my fruit water starters are bubbling along just fine. I have 2: the original is apple, dried cranberry, dried raisin, and dried currant (I added those at the end). The "spin off" is a pure raisin yeast water (RYW), using a tiny bit of the apple yeast water.

So it's day 10. How do they smell? They both have fermented out dry, that is, they smell very much like a dry sparkling white wine. The RYW has a slightly more beer-y flavor and aroma. The original AYW has a slightly sour-ish flavor and green apple aroma.

I fed the AYW water today with 1 apple, about 2 tbsp of currants.

Mixed up a batch of pre-ferment with flour and the AYW, at about 100% hydration. About 8 hours later, it is nearly doubled.