April 1, 2011 - 2:41am
stiff rye sourdough
hi all,
I was trying to follow that recipe : http://youcandoitathome.blogspot.com/2011/03/sourdough-rye-with-raisins-and-walnuts.html
35% Rye with walnuts. but, I had a problem with the starter. It wass very very stiff ?
does anyone think it has wrong quantities ? even after 16 hours its remain stiff. it was more similar to soaker then sourdough.
thanks for your help
Yuval.
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rye preferments don't grow at all if they are stiff, but it doesn't mean that yeasts aren't there. If you dissolve your starter in water and you see that it makes bubbles and foam (most likely) then it's full of yeasts. I'd go on as for the recipe (except that I never add baker's yeast).
Hi Yuval,
Rye pastes need high hydration. Overall around 85% for all-rye. Heed Nico's advice, if your formula already accounts for this level of water.
Too much liquid and it won't bake out!
Rye flour can be very variable in the amount of water taken up; you just have to get used to this.
Best wishes
Andy
The recipe looks fine, the starter is on the stiff side for sure, but nowhere near what you describe.
Especially if you have very absorbent bread flour. If you mix and knead with wet hands, the hydration will go up a little. 85% hydration would need a form to keep it's shape and this is only 35% rye flour so it should work out.
Add enough water, 20g at a time so that it behaves like a wheat sourdough with a little bit of stickiness. Wet hands and surface would be the way to knead.
Mini
It's 80% medium rye starter, why would be that stiff? And 35% rye dough at 68% hydration is also pleasantly soft.
that should not be stiff. Something is amiss. In measuring maybe?
I made the BBA 100% sourdough rye last week, and both the starter and the dough turned out quite stiff. The recipe called for fermenting the dough (4 hrs)and then forming loaves to rise (2 hrs). The large dough raised considerably during the ferment, but after forming the loaves they never raised again (I waited 3 hours, the house was warm, etc). I'm thinking that, being 100% rye, there's no need for kneading or degassing, and perhaps it would be best to set the dough to loaves in banneton immediately for the ferment.
Though the loaves were heavy and dense, the flavor was terrific! Lovely sour, great rye flavor, and just the lightest touch of caraway.
should not be very stiff and dry, or they won't rise (speaking only of the final dough here, not of the preferment). Read Mini's 100% favorite rye for a description of how your dough should feel.
Degassing rye doughs IS useful, unless you are preparing a bread like the 3-stage Detmolder where a large percentage of the flour already underwent a massive fermentation.
That recipe is coincidentally from a member here at TFL, where she also blogged about it.
Surely she can help:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/22922/sourdough-rye-raisins-and-walnuts
Sorry, a little late to the party. I wasn't realised that the question was raised about my blog. Life of a food blogger can be busy, cooking, blogging, planning....etc...well.
As Andy & Mini (the Rye Experts) mentioned that Rye flour absorbs more water than wheat. 80% hydration starter feels more like a 60% white starter, which is a stiff-stater.
This is not your normal liquid starter, which usually 100% or 125%. It's a stiff one. So, nothing is wrong that you feel your starter is very stiff.
As nicodvb put it, when you mix rye sour into the final dough, you will have to mix it first with water, to dissolve it before mixing everything else.
The final dough texture is supple, easy to knead, not stiff.
Hope this helps.
Sue
http://youcandoitathome.blogspot.com
Thank you Sue and others,
I will try it again, and this time i wont throw it...( nothing personal Sue ...(-: .....).
BTW, do you have apicture of the starter ?
yuval,
Sorry, I don't have the photo of starter. I thought I had, but looked through my gallery, I don't.
The starter is stiff, it's not a liquid starter. The texture felt more like a stiff bread dough.
Rye starter won't gain much volume when it's ripen. You can tell if the rye starter is ripen when it's domed on top.
Again, when mixing rye starter into the final dough. Dissolve them in water, follows by the rest of ingredients.The final dough (with 68% hydration) won't be stiff. It's pliable.
Hope this helps.
Sue
http://youcandoitathome.blogspot.com
I posted these photos a few years back. The starter has a larger inoculation amount and could have has more hydration than the 71% flour mixture added to it. You can see it starts out firm and as it ferments gets softer.
Was your starter dryer that this?
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/6826/oh-please-oh-oh-oh-please-grow-me#comment-34771
The pic of the starter that I put aside (about 1 tablespoon) before I put the starter into the final mixing is below. As you can see, it's stiff but not very very stiff, it's kneadable. If yours are very very stiff, it could be issue with your rye flour being high water absorbent.
Sue
http://youcandoitathome.blogspot.com
I will try it again in my weekend and post some pic.
BTW, can i use the sourdough ( 16 gram i think ? ), directly from my fridg. ?
I usually feed my starter at least once before final built, about 10-12 hrs before final built.
Sue
http://youcandoitathome.blogspot.com
I thought that the overnight starter is actually the sourdough feeding.
Hi Yuval,
In a way, overnight starter is the sourdough feeding. However, this depends on how active your starter is. When is it last fed before the final built?
You probably can get away with just the sourdough feeding, i.e. straight from fridge to final built. However, the quality of your loaf will also largely depend on the quality of your starter. How well your bread will rise, the taste, the crumbs, etc.
I have experienced it myself how better my bread turn out after three feedings (oven springs, well open crumbs and most of all taste). You can experiment and see how it goes, which feeding schedule produces better bread for you.
Cheers,
Sue
http://youcandoitathome.blogspot.com