The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Dumpflmeier Rye

  • Pin It
pjkobulnicky's picture
pjkobulnicky

Dumpflmeier Rye

This is a refreshed continuation of the long discussion we've had over the past 10 days or so about German Rye breads.

 

I was in Hamilton, Ont. last week and not only brought home some Dumpflmeier Klosterbrot (still the best tasting rye I know) but read as many labels as I could. Here is what I learned:

 

1. The amount of rye in the recipe is very small ... it is the third ingredient listed after white flour, and natural rye starter.

 

2. the loaves are enormous ... 10 lb. Significance???

 

3. There is nothing in the bread execpt white flour, rye starter, rye flour, salt and water.

 

My son the baker was with me and although he has never seen a recipe for it, he estimated that the total rye was less than 20% of the total flour.

 

The part that seems the toughest to figure out is how one gets the very smooth fine crumb that the bread has. The issue here is that one has to work up gluten in the white flour to counteract the rye and maintain loaf structure but avoid large holes in the crumb. Thoughts?

 

I'm going to try this week to come close.

 

Paul

sphealey's picture
sphealey

> 2. the loaves are enormous ... 10 lb. Significance???

Both Hammelman in _Bread_ and Leader in _Bread Alone_ report that ryes (and sourdoughs in general) were originally baked in very large loaves such as you describe, and that there may be a difference in flavour or chemistry if this is done. However, they also report that very few bakeries (not to mention individuals) have ovens large enough to bake such loaves today so they are rare.

I found that the import shop at the end of my street carries some Dimpflmeier loaves, so I have to get one to compare to my Hammelman sourdough. Probably not a fair test though because the supply chain between the central midwest US and Toronto is quite long ;-(

sPh

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Glad to hear your results:

brought home some Dumpflmeier Klosterbrot (still the best tasting rye I know)

Myself and Old Camp Cook would agree.  Now I guess we need to work toward that goal. 

One question I have is what kind of Rye to use? There are obviously many different ryes out there and I see that KA has a Rye Flour Blend which combines white and medium rye flours, whole rye meal(pumpernickel, and KA unbleached bread flour.  Would that be OK to go with?

Also as to the crust what would you suggest is the best way to try to copy it?  I remember it as being thin, soft, and chewy.  Not thick and brittle.  Is that correct and if so how would you suggest trying to copy it?

It is always fun to have tangible and quantifiable goals to aim for and doubly so when they are shared, so, please feel free to make any and all suggestions possible.

Well done!

Country Boy

thanks,

countryboy

weavershouse's picture
weavershouse

Paul, did you find the Klosterbrot to have a slightly sweet flavor?  Very slight. I did but don't know how they would get that with so few ingredients.
Looking forward to seeing the results of the experiments to come. Good luck to all.                                                                         weavershouse

pumpkinpapa's picture
pumpkinpapa

The Klosterbrot is a monastery loaf, the site says it's 7 pounds but I thought I saw bigger loaves at Denningers. I like the 100% Sauerteig, great with pb or for a fresh tomato sandwich. I have not had the chance to try the Holzofen Brot which can be had in 10lb and 3lb loaves.

Oldcampcook's picture
Oldcampcook

I agree with Country Boy that the crust should be thin, soft and chewey.

It's been too many years since I ate it in Germany to remember if it had a sweetness to it.

Boy, oh, boy, I can't wait to get a recipe of any type to try!  yum, yum, yum

Old Camp Cook

pjkobulnicky's picture
pjkobulnicky

There IS a certain sweetness to the bread that I can only assume comes from fermentation of the carbohydrates in the white flour. The loaf also has a soft crust which I guess is the effect of the dampness in the rye as it sits. My son tells me that one never cuts a rye for 24 hours so that the moisture from the rye migrates evenly throughout the bread and to the exterior. Also, the Dimplfmeier ryes are shipped in plastic which would further soften the crust.

I will use regular rye   ..... either KA or Bobs or another speciality brand ... whatever I have. 

I live a hour's drive from Reinecker's in Macedonia OH ... a regional competitor to Dimpflmeier.  I'm tempted to stop in and see if they will tell me how to do this without them worrying that I am a commercial competitor. 

Paul Kobulnicky

Baking in Ohio

weavershouse's picture
weavershouse

Does Reinecker's make a rye comparable to Klosterbrot? I love their rye with flaxseed but never tried any of their other breads.

Today we took a 45 min trip to the meat store where my friend bought the Klosterbrot he served at lunch a couple of weeks ago. Well, the bread doesn't come in till Wednesday afternoon! I was really looking forward to bringing some home to check it out and do some experimenting of my own. Oh well.

weavershouse

Oldcampcook's picture
Oldcampcook

Go for it, Paul!  You need some gas money?

 

Old Camp Cook

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I don't know if this helps anyone but I do have some observations:

The large loaves of Crusty Rye have a crust that is hard, rough, and crunchy. Slipping while cutting can result in scraped and bloody knuckles. Many wrap the cooled loaf in plastic wrap or in large plastic bags so the moisture inside comes out to the crust to soften it a bit. Larger loaves are moister and have the darker crust. Smaller loaves made with the same dough do not sell as well here in Austria as a large rye loaf cut into smaller portions. Smaller loaves of mixed rye and white wheat tend to be dryer, and have a smoother lighter crust. I counteract this dryness in my small loaves by adding potato.

I get a fine texture from my low gluten flour when I punch it down often, not waiting for it to rise to double. Maybe mixing and knocking out the holes leads to a finer texture...interrupting the proof rise several times might do the trick.

I started going through Jeffrey Hamelman's book titled: Bread.  Wow, lots of information and I'm impressed!  Glad I ordered it, me being a rye fan and all.  Like cleaning out the cob webs  in my head and making sense of my observations.  Guess I've got a knack in dealing with low gluten flours but that could be because of China.  Now I'm learning a bit more termanology.  Sure wish the "home" column to the recipes was stated in grams.   Guess I have a lot of converting to do.  Or is there a page I can download, print and stick in my book to deal with the switch of oz to gm?  --Mini Oven

pumpkinpapa's picture
pumpkinpapa

I find this discussion very interesting, especially with regards to the differing varieties of rye flour available in the US.

Here in Ontario dark rye flour is rye flour on the retail level, and sometimes rye flakes and whole rye grain is available in organic shops but little else. Other grades must be mail ordered from BRM or KA, and the border get's iffy with grains and cereals.

Just to note differences, what grades are available to you in the US on the retail level?

 

Peter 

sphealey's picture
sphealey

=== Other grades must be mail ordered from BRM or KA, and the border get's iffy with grains and cereals. ===

Which is somewhat ironic when you consider that there is a good chance any given BRM or KA product came from Canada originally.

=== Just to note differences, what grades are available to you in the US on the retail level? ===

It varies all over the country. In my experience in urban areas of the central Midwest most grocery stores carry Hodgson Mills (called "rye flour") and at least one Bob's Red Mill product (usually the dark whole grain organic rye flour), but you might have to hunt for it. BRM medium rye flour and cracked rye might be there too. Beyond that it depends on the store - within reasonable driving distance of my house three stores of the same chain range between 8 BRM products stuck on a high shelf and a full display of 50 BRM products (still no pumpernickel meal though). Sometimes the BRM products are split between the baking area and the organic/health area (esp the gluten-free products).

Outside the urban areas I have seen Hodgson Mills on the shelf, but it is usually old and the boxes are dusty.

YMMV!

sPh

mybonemarrow's picture
mybonemarrow

When does the salt get added in the sour dough bread?

sphealey's picture
sphealey

=== When does the salt get added in sourdough bread? ===

In most recipies, at the start of the bulk kneading.

The sequence is typically:

  1. First sourdough build step
  2. Second sourdough build step
  3. Third ... Nth sourdough build step - at the end of this step the levain is usually about 40% of the final dough weight
  4. Mixing in of final ingredients
  5. Possibly an autolyese period (20 minutes)
  6. {add salt} - Bulk kneading
  7. Bulk fermentation (may be short)
  8. etc.

If there is no autolyese period then the salt is added with the final ingrediants.

sPh

pjkobulnicky's picture
pjkobulnicky

 So ... while thinking about what to do about these recipes, I just took the bull by the horns and send an e-mail to customer services at Dimpflmeier's. I told them that we were just home bakers who were fans and very curious and eager to know.  No reply yet.

 

It is the work week and so no trips yet to Reineckers. 

 

Paul Kobulnicky

Baking in Ohio

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

very gutsy thing to do. I would never have thought to do it.  Good Luck!

cb