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Sourdough Ciabatta Rolls - no kneading at all

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txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

Sourdough Ciabatta Rolls - no kneading at all


 


This formula is adapted from Wild Yeast's great recipe here: http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2008/07/28/sourdough-ciabatta-rolls/, with the following changes:


1. Increased the hydration to 85%


2. The original formual requires no machine kneading but does do a bit of hand kneading in the beginning, I don't knead at all, not with machine, not with hand. I used the same technique from my 36 hour sourdough baguettes: a long cold autolyse (4 hours in this case) to develope the initial gluten, then add in the 100% starter and salt, mix until roughly even. At that point, the "dough" looks like following, don't worry, it will be fine.



 


3. Added a S&F during bulk rise, which makes 4 S&F in total. And look how smooth the dough looks at the end of the 2 hour bulk rise! Magic!



 


4. After an overnight stay in the fridge and 1.5 hour of warm up at room temp, it full of bubbles, beautiful.



 


5. I only made 1/3 of the recipe since I didn't have enough starter, so 4 rolls rather than 12. They look very flat and sad proofing, I decreased the proofing time to 1 hour since the house was warm.



 


6. Flip over one by one then into an hot oven they go. Amazing ovenspring. They sang loud and proud out of the oven.



 


Nice open crumb. Nice delicious flavor.



 


I think all that dividing for rolls destroyed some bubbles. Next time I will just make one big loaf with this amount of the dough, I think the crumb will be even more open.



 


Submitting to Yeastspotting.


 

Comments

Sjadad's picture
Sjadad

You want a more open crumb?!  All you'll have is crust :)


I think I have to make ciabatta this weekend.

Syd's picture
Syd


You want a more open crumb?!  All you'll have is crust :)



Lol!  Indeed, you want some crumb with your air.


Lovely looking ciabatta txfarmer.


Syd

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

I actually like the crumb exactly as it is, for ciabatta it's perfect!


 


wonderful, Txfarmer!

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

Thanks guys! I am happy with the crumb, just think it might even be better for a large one. As is, the middle/center of the roll, when cut horizontally is a bit dense.

earth3rd's picture
earth3rd

Wow... those look fantastic!!! Nicely done.

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

Thanks!

Zeb's picture
Zeb

I am going to have to try and make these and if they looked even half as good as those beauties I would be so happy. Really lovely ciabatta!


Are they proofing on parchment or a couche cloth may I ask how you stop them sticking to whatever it is?  Moving ciabatta around is where I get 'stuck' usually.


 


 

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

As shown in the picture, they are proofed on parchment paper. To avoid sticking, use a lot of flour - a blend of rice flour and AP.

Zeb's picture
Zeb

Thankyou !

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

Makes me want a juicy sandwich...sliced crosswise, perfect crumb to hold all those Italian juices for a great sandwich.


Sylvia

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

That's what we did to the other 3 rolls, very yummy.

teketeke's picture
teketeke

I better echo everybody's comment!  I would like to make pizzas with the dough.


Best wishes,


Akiko

earth3rd's picture
earth3rd

Make sure you bake the pie shell a little before you add the rest of the ingrediants as the dough is very wet.

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

Pizza would be a good idea for this dough.

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Hello txfarmer,


Khalid just baked his beautiful Ciabatta with Biga, and now here are your lovely Ciabatta rolls. You have such skill with high-hydration doughs, maintaining that open crumb! If only there were video, to see your skilled hands at work!

Thanks for the great pictures and inspiration,
from breadsong

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

tommy.han's picture
tommy.han

Hey txfarmer-

just read this and it looks great. but one quick question: when you're calculating your hydration, are you also including the flour and water from the starter? if my math is right, the recipe as written is already at 81%....

465 + 76 + 305 = 846 g flour  (flour + WW flour + 1/2 of 100% hyd. starter)

355 + 26 + 305 = 686 g "water" (water + olive oil + 1/2 of 100% hyd. starter)

686/846 = 81% total hydration

Is there something I'm missing or are you calculating differently? Would an extra 33 g of water actually make a considerable difference? 

Thanks in advance!

Tommy

 

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

I do include water and flour in the starter, and I increased water to make the total hydration to 85%. With everything else equal, 4% of water does make a difference. But then it's hard to say whether "everything else" is actually equal.

BTW, I don't count oil as water percentage.

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi txfarmer,

small point, but if you don't count the oil, then the Wild Yeast formula totals 78% hydration [660g water/846g flour].   So you must have increased the hydration by 7%, not 4%.   For all that, 85% hydration is a good maximum to aim for for ciabatta, of course.

Best wishes

Andy

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

You are right. I remember not even caring what the original hydration level is, just calculated to include enough water to make it 85%.

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi txfarmer,

do you count the oil as part of the hydration?   There is no water in the oil; it scarcely functions the same as water, and I never count it in this calculation.

Unless you've managed to hide the sections of crumb [?] that are a "bit dense", then I'm with the others at the top.   It's nice to have a bit of crumb to enjoy with your crust!

The ciabatta rolls look absoultely wonderful to me, and it's interesting to see the dough develop without any mechanical aid too.

Best wishes

Andy

tommy.han's picture
tommy.han

I was wondering about this as well. I learned that when calculating BP, anything "liquid"-ish should be counted as "water." Is that the general consensus?

Tommy

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

No, I do not count oil in hydration. I only count water, about 85% of milk, that's it. In my opinion it doesn't matter how you count it, as long as you co-relate your hydration calculation with how the dough should feel correctly.

Andy, I guess I am used to seeing the larger holes in larger ciabatta loaves, this smaller size yields smaller holes, which makes sense but...

Sulpicia III's picture
Sulpicia III

I tried this technique. I couldn't get the starter to mix into the dough mixture that had been in the refrigerator and I got frustrated and used a dough whisk. However, this seems to have irreperably damaged the gluten of the resulting dough. Any tips to avoid this?

Thanks!

mwilson's picture
mwilson

That crumb is majestic!

Unfortunately I couldn't replicate this. I couldn't allow myself to have a dough look like that with the large bubbles lifting up and no surface tension - for me this is an error. But the end results are testament to the contrary.

It's the differences that make the world go round.

As long as it's natural, made with love and tastes great then what more can you ask for...?!

Michael
(I need to knead! :P) 

wayne on FLUKE's picture
wayne on FLUKE

Made 6 of these rolls this morning and had them for lunch. Best ciabatta I have made. I hadn't tried any in quite a while due to lack of success. I followed your process but kept the hydration the same as Susan (wild yeast) since I didn't want to take chances until I have some good results.

My biggest concern is always handling the wet dough. I decided to scrape it onto floured counter, divide, spread apart, tuck edges under, put a little corn meal on top, cover and proof, then flip one at a time onto parchment paper already on peel and slide onto hot stone. Minimal handling and worked for me! Used Sylvia's towel steam method.

Timing was pretty easy. 1st refresh of starter Fri night, 2nd feeding Sat morning, make dough Sat evening, refer overnight and divide, proof, bake Sun morning.

thanks again -- wayne

Muskie's picture
Muskie

TxFarmer, I baked this recipe this morning. I admit I didn't follow it to a T, something I have to work on. However, my question is this. I made 6 ciabatta rolls out of half the recipe. They were small when I cut them outta the dough, I assumed they would spread when backed. Instead of spreading, they ballooned into balls. This left me with rolls that had too much crust. The crumb was perfect, but there was just too much crust. Slicing them as you might a baguette was difficult, but my hope was to use them as sandwich buns...and there was no way I could do that.

Any idea what might have gone wrong? When I put them in the oven they were small, but at least flat and rectangular.

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

1) if you want them flat, you need to proof them longer so that they don't get that much oven spring. 

2) However I am unsure how a flat profile would mean less crust. 

Muskie's picture
Muskie

Well, its tough to describe, but basically they were so small that every slice was essentially a mouthful, so each bite had 4 sides of crust. I'll have to do some more reading to figure out how to avoid oven spring, so far its been a prime target to achieve oven spring...;-]