January 31, 2011 - 2:16am
How much over-sour dough to use?
Hi,
I'm intentionally letting acidify a rye dough for many days. The aroma gets better and better and the pH drops well beyond the survival threshold for yeasts (in fact it doesn't work anymore as a starter).
My intention is to use it as a flavor enhancer and as mould repellent in white(-ish) bread, of course after having added some fresh levain.
How much of this sour dough (the more I think of it the more I convince myself the way I'm going to use it is closer to the original than what I've been doing so far) should I use with respect to the flour of the bread? I don't want to add more than necessary because if it's too much it will probably have a negative effect both on the taste and on the structure of the bread.
Thanks.
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Nico, I thought you were making... how much rye are you fermenting?
...why don't you heat it up after is gets good and sour and trap the steam. If you use an inverted funnel with a long coiled tube attached, the steam will condense and drip into a bottle and the scintillating liguid could be used for years! I might even swing by for a swig or two to check the quality as it ages. If you were on Isle of Skye, I know what we would call it.
it's maybe 800 gr or so. Mini, there's something supernatural in you!!
If I set up a lab I might as well search a new home:-) a place where I could distil ambrosia;)
Probably no more than 5% on flour weights. Since you want the bread to be whitish, and are justifiably concerned about the effects on the dough, that's about as far as I would care to push it. No hard science, just skittish.
Paul
I answered previously but my post vanished....
Well, I wrote that I'm not going to make alcohol out of it:-), just use my dough as a flavor enhancer. Paul's 5% is a good starting point, to try absolutely.
Daisy, this dough is made with rye flour, not wheat. As far as I know alcohol evaporates during baking without leaving traces in the aroma. Doesn't it?
Daisy you remind me that generally adding just a small amount of rye sour dough is sufficient to give the bread a wonderful aroma, I'd say out of proportion respect to the small amount of sour dough used.
sooner or later the yeasts will get the message to go into survival mode and stop producing gas and go dormant. It might add great flavor but the dough may need a boost with added yeast. Gosh that sounds like German sourdough only with a large portion of rye!
You're thinking about combining a very ripe starter and a just peaked starter in a dough with added flour? Would that be interesting? Yes! The flavor from one, the yeast from the other, and just enough flour for the final proof. Even the wheat dough could have been mixed (flour and water) and allowed to autolyse 8-12 hours before the great combining of three.
Mini
Old dough for flavor and a just peaked starter for the levaining, exactly as you described. Experimentation has already begun, as I wrote in the previous post. I'm sure you can do it much better than me!
I'm thinking all those enzymes in the old dough and then I'm thinking how I feed my starter altus to reduce the enzymes because too many were coming from the flour. Maybe that is why I like fermenting day old rye bread that isn't active but still contains aromas and flavor. That extra kick of flavor without the problems. I'm thinking I'm an enzyme scaredy-cat.
I haven't tried two differently aged starters in one dough... not yet. There is also a new thread on adding mash to dough, could also be along the same lines. Around these parts there seems to be a common feeding of starters with cracked or coarse (also comes as fine meal) whole rye or roggenschrot. I wonder if it ferments differently than rye flour. Slower perhaps for longer ferments?
Mini (in Austria)
as coarse grains take ages to fully hydrate. They don't even permit the dough to raise as much as with fine rye flour alone, but over the days any trace of coarseness disappears.