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Sourdough Panettone - sleep? who needs sleep?

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txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

Sourdough Panettone - sleep? who needs sleep?


Last year I spent nearly 90 hours to make sourdough pandoro. Twice (one failed attempt, one delicious success). And thought it was worthwhile. I must be crazy.


This year, I spent 90 hours to make sourdough panettone. Twice (one test run, one massive batch for gifts). Still think it's fun. They are coming to take me away anytime now.


 


Recipe is based on foolishpoolish's wonderful creation (here), with techniques from "AB&P", Wild Yeast, etc. Two days to re-activate my starter, one more day to convert to "Italian sweet starter", 12 hours for rising first dough, 19 hours for rising final dough. Up at midnight, then 2am, to check on the dough, finally at 3:30 to start baking. Like I said, who needs sleep when it's holiday season?!



Some notes:


- For some reason, no one, not even one source on this whole wide web, can tell me how much dough I should put in my paper mold. Most recipes would tell me how much dough to use, but not the mold size. Some tell me the diameter of the mold, but not the height. My molds are from here,  6.75inch in diameter, 4.25inch in height, and is supposed to be for "standard size, 2lb loaf". I know 2lb is 900g roughly, but that's after baking, how much dough would that be? Finally I found answer in "AB&P", for their 5.25X3.25inch mold, they use 500g of dough, which means I need 1080g for mine. Too bad I found that AFTER my first batch, so my test loaf (950g of dough) came out a bit short, but for my real batch, I used 1050g of dough and they came out perfect (as shown in the pictures above).


- Since my husband really loved the sourdough pandoro last year, he made me a "proofing box" using insulated foam boards, a pet temperature regulator, and a light bulb. Really helpful for keeping Italian starter and proofing the loaves! EXCEPT, when the regulateor's setting was messed up and it stayed at 70F , rather than the 85F I set. Ugh, messed up my whole timing.


- All sources say to simply mix the first dough until even - no mention of developing any dough strength. However, I do find if I mix first dough with KA mixer, paddle attachement, until it clears the bowl, the final dough would be MUCH easier to mix. However since the first dough is very wet, the kneading took a while



- The mixing of the final dough was easier than last year's pandoro, could be that I have more experience this time. It was lilke liquid silk by the end, VERY STRONG liquid silk glove.



- I used glaze for the gift loaves, and the "tuck in a pat of butter" method for the test loaf, both works great.




- I had 800g of extra dough left after making the gift loaves. Don't want to use another paper mold, I dumped it in my new kugelhopf pan, it was only 1/4 full, but the amazing power of italian sourdough starter raised it just fine.



- However, I couldn't hang the Kugelhopf loaf upside down, so I just cooled it upside down on the rack, judging from the crumb, the bottom layer got compressed/squished a bit.



While the crumb of the test loaf was even and fluffy, and I expect the gift loaves to have the same crumb. Lesson: don't skip the step of hanging upside down to cool!



- It took my dough 19 hours at 85F to reach the rim of the mold (as supposed to  12hrs in the recipe), and I got awesome ovenspring, so they weren't over-proofed. I guess my starter likes to take its sweet time. And doesn't care about my sleep time.



- I have made BBA panettone before, no comparison, the flavor and velvety texture of this sourdough version is a whole new level.



- The gifts are all packed up and mailed out, the leftover loaves have been mostly devoured, now I just need to catch up on some sleep. Happy Holidays! ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ



Submitting to Yeastspotting.

Comments

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi txfarmer,


Panettone looks magnificent!


I am just in the middle of batch baking too. Feel like I am down the 'panettone  mines'! Doing the last batch coincided with the coldest night in the  UK since the reign of Queen Victoria. Was making do with hot water in pyrex dishes. Am thinking a pet temperature regulator would be the way to go. How great that your husband made that for you!


Beautiful gift wrap also - what a beautiful present!


Was talking to an Italian vendor down the local Christmas market and even he was saying homemade is best and he was selling the stuff :-). It's surely worth all your effort to have such lovely things to share.


With best wishes, Daisy_A

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

You are baking up an ocean of panettone this year! Two rounds of this sweet starter/19 hour dough babying are enough for me.  Whoever wants another loaf from me would have to wait until I catch up on my sleep, which would be next Christmas I suspect. :P

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi txfarmer,


I'm only doing little 'uns though - 500g. I'm sure you have done more overall, let alone all the other delicious baking. I've mostly done it in batches because of hand mixing and a small oven. 


I meant to say. I got my cases from Bakery Bits and they do list the information you were asking about for each size of case - how much dough each will take.


Link below, further details in hyperlink under each picture. 


http://bakerybits.co.uk/Panettone-Cases-C217930.aspx?sid=10763


I sympathise as I was up part of the night as dough rise slowed down incredibly due to the cold. Go get some shuteye - you deserve it after such a great baking run!


Kind regards, Daisy_A

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

Thanks for the link!I am still in awe that you hand knead this dough, I know it can be done, but that takes a lot of skills and effort!

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi txfarmer.


Glad the link was useful. On hand kneading what goes around comes around! I don't think I would have even got to the strarting block if I had not read this comment on your 'Pan de mie' blog pn sweet, high strength doughs, when I was contemplating doing the panettone 'Yes, it can be done by hand. I have regularly kneaded dough to this stage by hand, it just requires a bit of patience and practice' Many thanks for that!


Benefit of the air kneading is it is the one method I've found that can twist the dough, a bit like a mixer. Also, if you can keep it moving the dough weight is not all in your hands at once. I put on some lively music to keep me going!


Best wishes for Christmas, Daisy_A

wally's picture
wally

You put a lot of labor into them, and they truly show it.  Just beautiful panettone! (and magnificant windowpane!)


Larry

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

Thanks Larry!

abdosoliman's picture
abdosoliman

you are probably crazy but when Micheal Anglo hang upside down on walls of churches, many people though he was crazy

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

txfarmer, you panettone and Kugel look great!


I wrote in Eric's and Daisy's thread how to measure the amount of dough to put in a paper: generally it should weigh (in kg) 1.15*volume/3, thus 1150 grams for a 3 liter form.


I'm surprised that it took you so much time to raise the doughs: generally the first one triples in 8-10 hours and the second in 4-6. Did you do the 3 early refreshments to you levain? They help immensely!

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

Thanks for the size guideline! That's very useful info.


4-6 sounds short for a pure sourdough formula? The ones I saw with no commericial yeast all took 12 hours to rise (the final one). I did refresh my levain for a few days before using it, and it's been proven to be very active for other breads, including some light enriched ones. I guess my starter just acts slower when there's a lot of sugar in the dough.It also have a lot to do with the ratio of the levain in the dough I am guessing.


 


 

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

if done properly will do the trick. You should consider that the second dough is all risen dough, so it's full of yeasts. Also, keeping the temperature around 28°C will help a lot.

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

I refreshed my starter for 2 days, converted into Italian starter, then refreshed for 4 times, then made into first dough. Maybe next time I should refresh the Italian starter a few more times. Thanks for the tip!

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

TX, the theory about early refreshments is that they should be made every 4 hours, assuming that in those 4 hours the biga at least doubles in volume. If it doesn't then you should repeat the process.


Debra explained in a couple of wonderful threads how this system works (favoring yeasts over lactobacilli).

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

I understand, the Italian sweet starter was refereshed every 4hours, and it more than doubled in between. I did that 4 times before adding it to the first dough. Still took longer than expected.

LeeYong's picture
LeeYong

Hi TX!


They look amazing! I truly believe trying sourdough in all different recipes - I need to try this one out - though I'm not sure about two day event! I looked into the recipe you based it upon - which one did you use - there seem to be two there.


Happy baking!


LeeYong

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

Two? Did you click the link? (where the text says "here"), there's only one formula there. Here's the url again: http://www.cookaround.com/yabbse1/entry.php?b=66479

zo0316's picture
zo0316

txfarmer, your Panettone look awesome!


I have some Panettone papers that aren't completely round any more after being stored stacked inside of each other.  Do you have a way to make them circular again?  Or does the dough take care of that itself?


 


Enzo

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

Mine's a bit wavy too, but the dough takes care of it.

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Just insert a perfectly cylindrical plastic container in it, of course of the right size.

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

It might be hard to find a cylinder of the right size. I would pour a lot of beans/rice to fill the container, press tight to make the mold round again, and leave for a few days. However, I didn't have to do that for mine.

zo0316's picture
zo0316

That is a good idea, thanks!

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi txfarmer,


Up with all the other fabulous Panettone shown on TFL this festive season


All good wishes for 2011


Andy

hanseata's picture
hanseata

and sure tastes wonderful, too!


Happy Holidays,


Karin