The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

sesame seed bagels

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meedo's picture
meedo

sesame seed bagels

2 1/2  cups all purpose flour

2 cups whole wheat flour

4 1/2 teaspoon yeast

1/2 cups warm water

3 tablespoon sugar

1/2 teaspoon salt

1 egg white mixed with 1 tablespoon water, for egg wash

Some toasted sesame seed

1 Gallon water with ,1 tablespoon baking soda

1-combine warm water with yeast and sugar, than add the flour and salt ,Knead the dough for 8 minutes.Place it in a bowl, cover ,let rest for 10 minutes.

2-Cut in to 12 portions, Shape each into a smooth ball.Punch a hole in the center of each, Place on a greased baking sheet, Cover let rise 20 minutes 

3-Bake in a 450 F Oven for 6 minutes, then remove from oven. Reduce oven temperature to 350° F. Bring the water to a boil in a deep skillet, pan or pot. Dissolve baking soda in boiling water , Cook 3 to 4 bagels at a time for 1 minutes. 1/2 min to each side ,Gently remove bagles from water with tongs or slotted spoon; place on paper towel to drain. Repeat until all bagles have been boiled.

4-Place on a baking sheet ,Brush bagles with egg wash ,Sprinkle with toasted sesame seed . Bake in preheated 350°F. oven 19 to 20 minutes, or until golden brown.

maggie664's picture
maggie664

Hi Meedo,
Your bagels look fantastic. I have been baking them for years now and am interested to know why you put baking soda in the poaching water. Does it affect the flavour? After seeing yours, I have decided to substitute some white flour for wholewheat flour. I use 50% milk as the liquid which enhances the flavour too.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Just found your Great pics!  ooh, they look gooood!   gotta make me some....  Mini Oven

meedo's picture
meedo

First of all baking soda give it a gorges color and make a lot different in the flavor , I think the original recipe for the bagel is to putt a tablespoon of sugar in the boiling water but it doesn't make any flavor in the bagel but baking soda dose.   

maggie664's picture
maggie664

Thanks Meedo Will try the baking soda out. M

tattooedtonka's picture
tattooedtonka

If you dont mind me jumpin in here, I thought I would add a little about the Soda part.

Reinhart has in the BBA "However, I prefer to use a small amount of baking soda to alkalize the water, as it is readily available and replicates closest the flavor of lye baths used commercially.  The alkalizing of the water causes a slightly different quality of gelatinization of the outer starches on the surface of the dough, inducing more shine and a richer caramelization of the crust when it bakes."

I personally make water bagels quite a bit, and have tried it with and without.  I like it with, I use a 20qt. stock pot so I can boil 6 at a time, and pour in baking soda 1 tablespoon at a time until my water is the color of tea. I then boil my bagels for 2 minutes on the first side, and 1 1/2 on the other.  The only other main difference from what meedo is doing above is, I boil, then bake at a much higher temp. for much shorter times.  Where Meedo is baking, boiling, then baking again.

Not judging one way to be better than another just stating my difference.  No insult intended meedo, your bagels look great.

Tattooed Tonka

maggie664's picture
maggie664

Hi Tattooed Tonka,
I think both Meedo as well as myself will benefit from that information. It certainly makes sense. Can't work out though why the water turns to the colour of tea. So for 20 quarts of water, about how many Tbs baking soda would you use? (Just trying to get an idea of the proportions). I have a reasonably shallow wide cooking pan for poaching. When I first poached the bagels for 2 minutes per side,some of my clientele thought the bagels were stale! (an Antipodean assumption). I poach and then bake but proof them a little before the poaching (for this Antipodean preference) !!
Thank you for coming into this discussion. I have a lot of yeast baking books here but not the time to read then except for taking the odd recipe out; as I have to bake and cook and manage the cafe at the moment ( and for the last 11 years!)

meedo's picture
meedo

I tried to boil the bagel first then baked it, but every time I do that it turned horrible and so doughy , So I decide to make my own way which is work perfectly every time I make this recipe,

For the baking soda it doesn’t matter how much soda you putt in water, if you putt like a tablespoon or 5 tablespoons it well give you same color and flavor.

 

maggie664's picture
maggie664

Hi Meedo,
Has your oven temp. been hot enough? I cook mine on 220ºC (or actually 200ºC Fan-forced). Don't know what that is in Fahrenheit figures.M

meedo's picture
meedo

Hi Maggie

I think 220ْ c (Between 450- 475 F )

I try to make the original recipe for the bagel which to boil then bake. I tried it more than 8 times and it turns bad, (the original recipe is to boil for 7 minutes for each side) when I boil it then take it out from water it shrink.So I decide to bake them then boil then bake, and its work perfectly, so my bagel nightmare is over.

maggie664's picture
maggie664

Hi Meedo,
Don't get me wrong - I think your bagels are really beautiful. i'm just surprised that you bake, then poach, then bake. If you were poaching them 7 minutes a side - it's no wonder they shrank. What recipe source were you using? I don't know how true it is - and perhaps someone else coiuld comment here - but I read that the original Jewish bagels were poached in boiling water only. Seven minutes aside - are you sure that otherwise wasn't a misprint? I only poach mine for 20 seconds a side otherwise my bagels wouldn't sell (New Yorkers - please forgive me!) M

tattooedtonka's picture
tattooedtonka

I do not profess to know why it turns the color of tea.  I just know that it does, and in one of my books (not sure which one) it says it should turn the color of tea.

Since I am mid-way through a couple dozen bagels right now here are my photos of water before soda, and water after soda.

and after

mid-boil

TT

meedo's picture
meedo

Hi maggie ,

I could try your way to make them, It may work with me, I think my recipe is 30 years old, I toke it from an old cook book, No wonder it turn bad every time , I changed the boiling time to 1 minutes for both sides.

My sister makes bagel she boiled it first then bakes it but there is no deferent between mains and hers, so it doesn't matter witch go first boil or bake.

If you have a bagel recipe could you share it with me,, I love to try a new recipes and get improved .

zainaba22's picture
zainaba22

Hi sis,

 Your bagels look fantastic,I will add your recipe to my recipes collection.

(by the way meedo my young sister)

zainab

maggie664's picture
maggie664

Hi Meedo,
Floyd has a recipe under 'Favourite Recipes" - but i will hunt out my original recipe for you. M

maggie664's picture
maggie664

Hi Tattooedtonka,
Thank you for the photos - I'll try the soda with to-morrow morning's bagels. My staff were a bit dubious when I told them about the above to-day, but i'm quite convinced about its efficacy.M

tattooedtonka's picture
tattooedtonka

Sorry, I forgot to answer your question about quantity.  This 20qt. stock pot way about 1/2 full of water and I put in 5 rounded tablespoons of Soda.  I just scooped them out of the box and dumped em in.  I didnt really use a specific science or weight.  This is what gave me the foamy result I was looking for.  Then first 6 bagels went in. 

TT

maggie664's picture
maggie664

Hi TT,
When you say foamy do you mean an instant foam which dies down to a a bit of froth? Don't suppose it is important - more so the colour of tea as illustrated. M

tattooedtonka's picture
tattooedtonka

Of course when you first put it in, you get the big splash of foam.  Then it dies down to a froth. 

This froth continues to boil up from the bottom of the pan, making alot more gas hitting the surface, than just boiling plain water.

SO I wonder, how did it work for you, were you able to try it today?

TT

maggie664's picture
maggie664

Hi TT,
Yes I did but no it didn't work! Can't work out where the problem lay. To about 5 litres of water in my shallow poaching pan, I added 1Tb baking soda, and continued to add bakng soda slowly while waiting for the water to become tea coloured. My staff looked on in shock as the water frothed and bubbled up and over the pan and extinguished the gas flame! We relit the gas and waited for the foam to subside before putting in one test bagel and poached it 20secs per side. The bagel looked a more lemony colour than its mates after poaching ( the others had already been poached) and the gelatinisation of the surface gave it a nice finish/sheen. It baked well to an even brown colour - but the crisp crust was loaded with the soda flavour!
Unfortunatlely my inorganic chemistry has long been forgotten. But two things may have contributed to the failure. Firstly, the poaching kettle is made of aluminium and secondly, our water is heavily chlorinated. I may go for a compromise and add 1Tb soda as Meedo does and poach them a little longer. I'm going to win here!
Can you comment on this diabolical failure?!! (Following that I made some really great carrot cakes, so hopefully my credibility with the staff was restored (just kidding - they are very forgiving kids and have a great sense of humour). M

maggie664's picture
maggie664

Hi Meedo,
The following recipe is very straight forward but may not taste as good as Floyd's. It is an Australian recipe which I use in a bulk quantity for the cafe (it's frozen in batches to last 1-1/2 weeks). Each Tablespoon (Tb) measures 20ml or 4 teaspoons).
2-1/2 teaspoons of quick-acting yeast
1 Tb sugar
1/2 cup warm water
1 cup warm milk
3 cups white flour
1 Tb salt
1 Tb sugar, extra
1 egg yolk
1 tsp water, extra
1 Tb poppy seeds or sesame seeds
• Combine yeast, sugar, milk and water in a large bowl, whisk until yeast has dissolved. Cover, stand in a warm place about 10 minutes or until mixture is frothy. Stir sifted flour, salt and extra sugar into yeast mixture in 2 batches, and mix to a firm dough.
• Gather dough into a ball, transfer to a lightly greased bowl, turn the dough to coat all sides with oil, cover the bowl tightly with plastic wrap, and let rise in a warm place until doubled in bulk; about 1 hour. (At this point the dough can be punched down, covered, and refrigerated for up to overnight).
• Turn dough onto a floured surface, knead until smooth; divide dough into 12 portions. Working with 1 piece of dough at a time, shape into a smooth round by lightly pulling the surface of the dough to the underside and pinching together, repeating until a contact ball of dough is formed. Roll in a circular motion on the bench under the palm of the hand. Lightly press to flatten into a disc. Poke your index finger through to make a hole. Pick up the dough with your finger in the hole and insert your other index finger through the other side of the hole. Rotate your fingers around each other, stretching the dough to make a ring with an opening about 4cm in diameter. Place on a greased bakiong tray and repeat with the remaining dough pieces. Allow to stand in a warm place for 20 minutes or until risen.
• Drop bagels individually in a pan of boiling water, they must not touch. Turn bagels after 15 seconds, boil another 15 seconds, remove with a slotted spoon. Place bagels on greased trays. Brush tops with combined egg yolk and water, Sprinkle with seeds.
•Bake in moderately hot oven for about 20 minutes. Cool on a wire rack.
• Makes 12 bagels

Good luck, M

meedo's picture
meedo

Thanks for the recipe, I'll try it and hopefully works perfectly for me,

And for the Baking soda you should dissolve it in a cold water then you bring it to the boiling temperature ,it well give you the same color as TT said

And show you in his picture (tea color ) .

Good luck with that

alyaman's picture
alyaman

this recipe make me remember the  my grandmam home


 there is the great smell


and taste


 


thanx


http://alyaman2002.blogspot.com/


alyaman

katie1234's picture
katie1234

im mid way through making these and so far iva put the 2 1/2 cups of flour in and the dough seems dry enough, do i add the other 2 cups?

 

MANNA's picture
MANNA

Just thought I would jump iin on this. Here is the recipe I use and everyone loves them.

1000g   Flour, Bread

500g    Water

50g     Oil

50g     Malt, syrup or diastatic powder (there must be live enzyemes in there)

15g     Salt, Kosher

10g     Yeast, instant

Increase water some if using malt powder, no more than 550g.

Mix and seal in a container. Place in fridge to cold ferment for 6-8 hours. Scale the dough at 100g and shape. Let rest at room temp for 30 min to relax the dough. Bring pot of water to a slight boil and add some malt syrup or honey. Boil about 15-20 sec per side. Add toppings and bake at 400 F with convection till golden brown.

winstonsmith's picture
winstonsmith

Looking good!

 

I'm off today and am torn between making bagles (I use Hamelmans formula but with a lye dip), sourdough with a new starter , or a miche.

 

Decisions, decisons :)

madrien's picture
madrien

Hey Meedo

Do you have the water amount wrong in this recipe?  Only 1/2 cup??? Don't think 4 1/2 cups of flour could be kneading consistency if only using 1/2 cup of water???

Did you leave out some other liquid ingredient perhaps?  And did anyone reviewing above try this recipe and if so what did you do to add more liquid to recipe?

Madrien

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

that would be roughly 50% hydration.  Bagel dough is rather stiff but you can add a little bit more water as needed.  It could be 1 1/2 cups water.  I would hold back 1/4 cup (from 1 1/2 c)  and add as needed to moisten all the flour.

Do read all the posts, I believe there are problems with the poaching as well.