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Need recipe for first sourdough

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andrewdixon1000's picture
andrewdixon1000

Need recipe for first sourdough

Hi,


I have created a starter by following the instructions here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/handbook/sourdough-starters


I found these instructions to be very good, and now after 2 weeks I believe I have a good starter and I'd like to bake by first loaf.  Unfortunately the instructions don't include a recipe to get started with.


BTW I started the starter with rye flour and then switched to feeding with white flour from the 4th day.


 


Can someone please point me in the direction of a good recipe to start out with.  In particular I'd also like info on how to prepare the starter for use, i.e., how long before starting the loaf do I feed the starter, and how much do I feed it and it what proportions.


Thanks a lot


Andrew

coffeetester's picture
coffeetester

http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2007/07/08/my-new-favorite-sourdough/


 


Someone recommended making this first. I am starting this tonight and baking tomorrow.

midwest baker's picture
midwest baker

Try this one.Step by step instructions.


http://www.northwestsourdough.com/recipes

RobynNZ's picture
RobynNZ

Gidday Andrew


Welcome to TFL. I see you are from NZ - I'm on Waiheke.


The formula coffeetester has pointed you to is indeed a good bread to start with, but Susan doesn't explain how to prepare the "360g of ripe 100% hydration sourdough starter" called for in her formula. 


Following the method in the book  ('Bread' by Jeffrey Hamelman) from which Susan has adapted her formula and using a 100% starter, 12-16 hours before you plan to mix the dough, you need to take 36 grams of your starter, when it has reached 'peak' and mix it with 180g of flour and 180g of water, and leave it covered at 21°C. The first time you make the levain it is a bit hard to decide when it is ready to use (i.e. 'ripe' in Susan's words), keep an eye out for the first signs of the tide going out, you'll also notice a kind of folding, in the centre. Next time you'll have a better idea. Use 360 grams of this mix, called levain, to make the bread. (Hamelman instructs to feed the rest as starter, but I find that I prefer to feed my starter at the same time as I make the levain and keep the starter on its own schedule, independent of the levain, and with no chance of accidently using it all in breadmaking.) 


I also find Susan's information on water and temperature very handy for gaining some control over timing.


http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2007/07/05/water/


Your starter is very new and will take time to develop its full potential but having had the patience to wait for two weeks before using it, you should be set to do well with it. Patience itself is an important ingredient in sourdough baking!


Where are you located? I ask because I have found the Auckland library (with amalgamation, now 55 libraries!) a marvellous resource. I made a purchase request for "Bread' last year, and they bought two copies. Recently I put in an application for 'Tartine' and three copies have been ordered. There are numerous other good bread books in the collections, too many to record here, but I would mention the Bourke St Bakery book from Australia too.


TFL too is an outstanding resource, the search box being the way into the wonderful archive here. I do agree that it is a bit of a puzzle making the step between having a starter and then using it for baking, also how to maintain it. Recently Debra Wink made some useful comments in her P J-2 thread ( the whole thread is well worth reading!) about starter maintenance that you may find useful.  This is a good time of year to get started as temperatures are breadmaking friendly, giving you time to get some confidence before dealing with high temps/cold temps.


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2#comment-140505


Another thing that I found really helpful was to go back to the beginning of the blogs on TFL of a number of the bakers whose breads are the kind I like, and follow their progress as they learned more about breadmaking after joining TFL.


But don't hesitate to ask more questions, this is a friendly, helpful place!


Sourdough is both fun and complex, you are in for a great time.


Cheers, Robyn

coffeetester's picture
coffeetester

So I have been feeding 50 grams of starter with 75 grams of water and flour. It gets to 3X its size and then collapses in about 12 hours. This morning to make the final ripe starter I took 120 grams starter with 180 grams water and flour. I ended up with 480 grams of ripe starter. IN about an hour I will go home and try to make this loaf of bread. Did I mess up my ripe by not using the right ratio. I was shooting for a ratio that doubles in 12 hours time at around 71F.

RobynNZ's picture
RobynNZ

Hi coffeetester


As your recent discussions with Debra highlight (and which I linked for Andrew to read through too) there are many ways of working with our starters, depending on our conditions. It's great that you have found a feeding routine that suits both you and your starter. 


Just be sure that the mix you have prepared is 'ripe' and then take the 360 grams to use in Susan's formula. I'm very  hopeful that it will be OK but if you find when you get home that the levain has completely collapsed, you might want to try again. If that's the case, you'll have learned one more thing! One step at a time. And please try not to over think, we're dealing with living organisims, there's quite a plus/minus factor involved!


I'm really looking forward to watching you develop as a baker, having followed your tentative first steps here and wish you well with this first bake.


Regards, Robyn

coffeetester's picture
coffeetester

I come home after about 10 hours after feeding. My starter has risen from 1" to 3" with some remnants at around 4". So it rose and collapsed. How far down should I be concerned with?

Franko's picture
Franko

The thing to do if your not sure of the viability of your starter is to test it in some warm water. Fill a vessel with room temp water and drop some of your starter in. If in ten minutes or so it floats to the top, your good to go. If it sits on the bottom you need to refresh it and get the yeasts fed and active. RobynNZ is right when she says not to over-think it. This process of culturing is pretty forgiving and not nearly as fragile or complicated as some folks might think.


Franko

andrewdixon1000's picture
andrewdixon1000

Hi Robyn,


Thanks very much for your detailed post (and also thanks to coffeetester for the original link).  I will try this recipe and method and see how I go.


I live in Rolleston (just inland from Christchurch).  My local library has a couple of (what I think are) good bread books, but I am looking at getting myself a book so I will keep an eye out for the Hamelman book.


Thanks to everyone for your replies.  I will give a report after I've baked my first loaf.


 


Thanks


Andrew

RobynNZ's picture
RobynNZ

Hi Andrew


I grew up down South, Rolleston was the point when we finally felt we were almost there, when heading for Christchurch, but if I hadn't known Rolleston, I most certainly would have in this last couple of months! What is life like at the adjusting end of the fault line which is producing such a multitude of after-shocks of significant size, I wonder....?  At the time of the major quake there was a thread set up here by a concerned TFLer, did you see it? Perhaps you'd be willing to leave a comment on that thread?


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19459/thoughts-our-friends-nz


With the exchange rate as it is, Amazon purchases are more favorable. After having had 'Bread' out from the library a couple of times, when my sister asked for a gift idea, I didn't hesitate! But as I said previously there is a great deal to be learned right here on TFL.


Another section which is worth an explore is that headed videos, in the banner above.


Await with interest your report on that first loaf.


Robyn

andrewdixon1000's picture
andrewdixon1000

Hi,


I've made my first batch of sourdough using the wildyeastblog.com recipe plus Robyn's info.  The recipe made 4 loaves, so I've baked to today and put the other 2 in the fridge to bake tomorrow.



I baked them at 450F (230C) for 12 minutes with steam.  The recipe called for a further 15-18 minutes without steam, but after 5 minutes without steam they looked like this, which I believed was ready.  I have noticed this with other recipes in the past, so maybe my oven is actually hotter than the dial says.


Anyway I'm reasonably happy with how it went, everything was pretty straightforward and I had no issues.


I will give a further report once I cut into the loaves.


Thanks everyone


Andrew

RobynNZ's picture
RobynNZ

Well done.


Do you have a thermometer which you could use to check internal temp? Meat thermometer or similar? Normally would look to achieve around 95°-100°C before removing from the oven. Otherwise it's the 'hollow sound when tapped on the bottom' which provides an indication. Crumb may not have had enough time to set properly. I'm sure you'll be able to figure out what works best in your oven.


For the next step you might like to take a look at David's tutorial's:


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10121/bread-scoring-tutorial-updated-122009


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19346/shaping-boule-tutorial-pictures


Regards, Robyn

richawatt's picture
richawatt

this is what I use, hopefully you know how to use bakers math. 


 


I make a starter from my mother culture.  100% flour 125% water 20% mother


I let this ferment for a while, sometimes 18 hours.  or just as long as it takes to get a full rise and fall. 


then I make my dough.  100% flour 54% water 40% starter 2.4% salt.


Mix, ferment, shape, proof, slash and bake.

Postal Grunt's picture
Postal Grunt

The 1-2-3 recipe that has been posted on many times works really well, regardless of island or continent. I think that it's Flo Makani, also known as Farine, that first brought it to the attention of TFL members.


It involves using one part starter, two parts water, and three parts flour, all measured by weight rather than volume. I can say that I've baked several successful and quite tasty loaves with this basic recipe.


Much better bakers than I have already posted on this method/recipe so if you do a search using the box at the top of the page or go through the Forum pages, chances are you can be successful too.

salma's picture
salma

I agree with Postal Grunt.  1-2-3 is a great recipe to start out, and when you dont want to deal with thinking about formulae especially, makes great bread.  You can tweak it by adding a Tbsp or so of olive oil and rosemary, or walnuts and raisins and some honey and any other additions.


Salma

coffeetester's picture
coffeetester

I wanted to bake again on the spur of the moment. My starter was fed about 14 hours ago and has peaked. If I am planning I know to take the starter at the peak but what do I do on a rainy morning where I did not plan. Can I just use the starter on hand? I am talking of making a 100g starter 200g water and 300g AP flour loaf.

Postal Grunt's picture
Postal Grunt

you should expect the time frame to bulk ferment and proof to be extended in relation to the time you use with a starter at or near its peak. You'll simply have fewer yeast spores in your starter for the same quantity to work with.


I suppose that you might bring your past peak starter up to room temp, give it a good stir, and wait a couple hours in an effort to utilize the unused flour as food for the viable spores but that won't ameliorate the extra time needed. You can also add a pinch of ADY or IDY when you mix your final dough as a way to help your loaf along. It's not a purist kind of thing but don't worry. You won't be the first or last baker to do so.

coffeetester's picture
coffeetester

I have my starter at room temp. I can stir it but how active will it be if its past its peak. Should I atempt a different ratio of feeding. Right now I feed 1:1.5:1.5 and it peaks at around 9 hours and falls completely by 12 hours (Usually the time i get to it). If I know i want to bake in 2 hours what can I do with my starter to make it viable to make a 1,2,3 loaf?

salma's picture
salma

I refreshed my starter yesterday.  I didnt get a chance to make bread after 10 hours (our heater is being worked on right now and have only room heaters so the house is cold).  I refrigerated the starter last night.  Took it out this morning and will let it sit for a couple of hours while I decide what bread I want to make.  Too many choices, too many good bakers and recipes here!!!


Salma