The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

I feel like I've started a long journey...

ronnie g's picture
ronnie g

I feel like I've started a long journey...

A couple of weeks ago I started on my journey to make sourdough bread.  Having been a home bread maker for nearly twenty years on and off, I thought (wrongly)... easy!   I AM such a funny girl!  The first lot of starter got thrown out after three days (it was probably fine, but any bubbles it might have had completely disappeared after I added tap water instead of filtered.)  Anyway, a new lot was started.  Just 50 grams white unbleached bread flour and 50 grams filtered water.  Long story short.... after five days I achieved a starter that doubled in size after the feeding routine.  I took it to seven days to make sure I had it going properly and also to develop the sour taste more fully.  It seems pretty sour to me, but fresh smelling like green apples.  Early on it had smelled like ripe bananas!

I did the sponge thing, (just for one loaf), proved it the first time and it rose nicely in a cosy covered bath of warm water in the laundry sink.  BUT!!!  When I left it to rise the second time before baking, it barely rose and baked like a little brick.  I DID mention that I have baked bread for 20 years, so I DO know how to bake regular bread.  (All by hand too I must say until recently when my KA took over the first initial mixing stage - I know I've gotten lazy!  Hey!  I'm a granny now, leave off!

So I tried a different recipe, this time trying to adapt my usual bread recipe that is a 70/30 mix of white and wholegrain.  Again the rise was not substantial even during the first proof.  I used two cups of starter and added as much flour as it would take.  Not as much as my usual.  Maybe I have to play this thing by ear...  During the second rise, (in tins) it seemed to take hours... I know it is supposed to be much longer than commercial yeast, but it rose about 1 1/2 times and then didn't move.  I decided to bake.  It actually sank during baking.  I was doing some spraying with water to get that nice crispy shiny crust.  The bread is tasty, but built like a brick!!!  I want bread like is pictured on this site!!!

So, I've done the sponge overnight.  I used 2 cups starter, 1 cup water, 1 cup white unbleached flour.  That doesn't seem right straight away.  It was a little frothy and bubbly in the morning,,,, spongey. : )

 

 

 

Comments

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Roonie, You are overproofing you sourdough sponge. Sourdough fermentation is less forgiving than commercial yeast fermentation. It is time contingent, temperature  contingent, and feeding cycle contingent. Take care of your statret as you would a baby, and this baby will grow stout healthy, and you'll have good sourdough bread.

ronnie g's picture
ronnie g

Hi Mebake,

I may have given the impression that I proved the sponge a couple of times : 'I did the sponge thing, (just for one loaf), proved it the first time and it rose nicely in a cosy covered bath of warm water in the laundry sink'.

 I meant that I proved the sponge overnight and the rest of the sentence referred to the actual dough for the bread. I'm less than a month old in 'sourdough baking' terms.  There's sooooo much to learn.  I have been taking care of the starter like a baby.  It's crazy!  I feel very responsible toward it.... haha.

proth5's picture
proth5

that your starter - at the ripe old age of 7 or 8 days, is still more of a culture.

I have recently been told by a couple of well qualified artisan bakers that the culture will bubble and may even rise a bit, but one should wait a few weeks until it is a properly mature starter.

Fits with what I experienced many long years ago when my starter was young.

Hope this helps.

ronnie g's picture
ronnie g

Thank you proth5 for that advice.  It IS quite odd, the whole idea of these starters gaining maturity, especially when half can be thrown out after every feed.  ( I don't BTW - gonna make those pancakes and crumpets!)  It's still okay to use it though isn't it?  But as it gets more mature, the bread will improve (hopefully).  And just to clarify.... when you say 'wait a few weeks', do you mean continue feeding etc?  You don't mean to store it in the fridge without feeding it do you?

proth5's picture
proth5

keep doing the discard and feed routine for a few weeks.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

So, I've done the sponge overnight.  I used 2 cups starter, 1 cup water, 1 cup white unbleached flour.  That doesn't seem right straight away.  It was a little frothy and bubbly in the morning,,,, spongey. : )

Lets look at that mixture.  When feeding a starter it is a good idea to feed at least the same weight or more of flour than that of the starter.  Same principle with the sponge but using cups is volume, one cup of flour is not equal in weight to one cup of water, it is less.  So with this feeding as the yeasts increase, the food is decreasing.  not good. 

I suggest this...  first we return to a small managable amount, then feed.   Feed this 1:2:2 every 12 hours for a two days and record the improvements.   With the next 12 hour feeding reduce the starter to 20g and feed 40g water and enough flour to make a thick paste, like toothpaste, this is roughly 100% hydration.  Check it with a scales.  This will be done for the next few weeks, twice a day, morning and night.  The discards can be thrown into a container and used to flavor recipes or it can be composted or diluted and washed down the pipes. 

As the weeks go by, you will find that you can reduce your starter further if you want to 10g you may find a ratio that fits your kitchen temp and flour best.  Starter to water to flour   (S:W:F)   as 1:2:2  1:3:3  or 1:5:5  When you want to bake with it 100% is easy to calculate.  

Example:  Say you are feeding (1:2:2)  20g (2 tsp starter) with 40g water and 40g flour (total of 100g) and want to bake a recipe calling for 150g of 100% starter.  Save twice as much starter when discarding to feed 40g starter with 80g water and 80g flour to stand overnight.  Take out 20g to feed and set aside.  The rest you can use in your recipe, a little is left over to pitch or add to the discard pile or spread thin to dry as a back up starter.

ronnie g's picture
ronnie g

Great advice MO, but I'm still making waaaayyy too much starter!  haha.  I think I've got this amount of lovely frothy green apple smelly goo and I love it.  I'm in love with the way it double in size after a feed.  I'm sure I'll get over this funny little hurdle and cut down soon.  Did you see my bread on my latest blog entry?  Not perfect, but making great progress.  I'm using up my starter on the yummiest pancakes ever!  Pity I'm on a diet, my hubby just has to eat most of them.  I AM starting to understand the maths of the 'starter' and will start being more disciplined soon.  : )