The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Bread crust, rise in oven?

kamp's picture
kamp

Bread crust, rise in oven?

What makes a bread top like this:

 

and not like this:

 

The first bread has rised even more when I put it in the hot oven but the last one didn't..

 

Any idea?

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

It's all about the Gluten.

If I am to understand some of your previous posts, you only bake gluten free bread. Gluten, when all goes right, is able to form sheets that act like a smooth, balloon skin. This is shown in the bottom loaf. 

This is probably very difficult to achieve in gluten free baking.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

but no information is given.  If this is made with gluten the loaf has fully fallen apart.  If this is a gluten free bread, then ...  maybe part or all of the flour should be pre gelled and then the mass grated or crumbed and then put back into the form and steamed to rebond the gelled pieces, this would result in a loaf with a cake like crumb, dryer and not so wet.

Mini

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

This picture beautifully illustrates when the dough past it's prime (cool really) but not something to repeat.   The crust integrity is lost and the tearing webbed gluten structure was frozen by heat in the baking process.   I think if the crust was not a little bit dry to the touch, and the oven cooler, the loaf would have fallen sooner leaving a brick.  Look carefully at the holes in the loaf, very irregular and no longer round like bubbles, more like breaking bubbles and they break into one another.  By the time the last loaf went in the oven, the bubble holding structure was overproofed to the point of not holding any gasses to help it rise.

I hope you can remember just how it looked and felt when the loaves had progressed this far.  This is too far proofed.   Loaves should have been in the oven much sooner.  Depending on the recipe anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour sooner.

The loaf also looks like it compacted too much while cooling as well.  Was it in a form? With a form, it is always a good idea that after shaping, the dough should fill the form more than halfway (2/3 is good) if you want a good looking top on it.  If the dough amout is too little for the pan, one is tempted to let the dough rise too long (hoping beyond "double") resulting in an overproofed loaf.  Happens often enough.

The good news is that you know what overproofed is like.  (Please, don't go there again!)  The only way to save it is to remix the recipe's ingredients and leave out the yeast mixing it up with the overproofed dough, the rising times will then be even shorter.  The save has to come quickly when the dough is discovered to be overproofed and not hours or days later. 

Mini

kamp's picture
kamp

Thanks for repleys.

The first bread is glutenfree, the second bread is not glutenfree.

The second picture it just a picture I googled to show what I mean when it not has that crispy crust.

I tried another time today and made 12 bread. 6 bread was very bad but the last 3 was very good! But the strange thing is that I don't know what I did different... 

I will post picture later..

kamp's picture
kamp

Here is picture of 3 different bread from 3 doughs. 

I really don't understand why the smallest bread didn't turn out like the others.

 

How do I now if the dough is overproofed? does anyone have a picture?

 

I make 6 bread at a time in the oven.

I mix togethter dough for 3 bread, put them in the bread pan and then mix the dough for the other 3 breads. Then I put them all in the oven at about 95F. I leave them there for 40 minutes. I take out the bread turn on the oven and wait untill the oven is hot enough and then I put them in again.

The only difference between the small and the tall bread is that the small bread was baked at 356F with the fan on (so its a bit warmer then 365) and the to other are baked at 392 with the fan.

 

 

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

some need time like yeast and sourdoughs, others like baking powder and soda should go sooner into the oven to take advantage of chemical reactions while they are happening.

kamp's picture
kamp

This is what I do:

Blend together water, yeast, flour, fiber, salt, melasse and seeds. Put the dough into 3 bread pans. Its no egg i den dough. I have been told to not write me recipe since I want to start my own bakery.

Blend together the same mixture again. When this is mixing I form the bread in the pans. And set them to rise at 95F. Then I take the new dough into and divid into 3 bread pans and set to rise.

I leave them to rise for about 40 minutes.

Take them out of the oven and turn the oven on.

Then I bake them 1 hour.

I have tried difference thing the last 20 bread and seens I had 6 good bread today maybe I have found it ;) I'm not baking bread tomorrow because I need to make something else then but I will try more on wednesday.

Is this answer at your question? (Some english word is hard to understand;))

 

 

 

kamp's picture
kamp

I think its my lack of english word that makes it hard :P

Because I don't know the difference between mix and kneading.. I mix everything in a kenwood major machine. I have never looked at the watch how long I have it on but I mix until the dough is "a ball".. But it never goes more then 5 minutes between each dough is set in the oven so maybe 3 minutes? I can see next time.

But I'm starting to have a clue about whats wrong.

I have no idea of what this is called in english but in norwegian it is called pizzahorn, its pizza inside the dough.

Last time I made them they rised very well (just like the bread) and then they where 3/4" after backing because they fell.. But I don't remember how long I had them to rise but today I let them rise 30 minutes in oven and 10 minutes out of oven because I turned on the oven ;) And then I baked them at 390F for 22 minutes.

 

And the bread to the left (the high bread) was rising shorter then the small bread so I guess it must be something with the rising.

It will be very interesting to se this week!