The Fresh Loaf

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Southern Style Yeast Rolls

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stgermain's picture
stgermain

Southern Style Yeast Rolls

My Grandmother's Yeast Rolls

Hi - I am new here but after reading so many comments from knowledgable bakers, I thought I would ask for your thoughts/opinions.  I remember my grandmother baking yeast rolls (with cake yeast) that were approximately 4" high, moist, and with an almost silky texture - not at all crumbly.  Does anyone know of a recipe and techniques that might help me replicate her rolls?  Any comments would be appreicated.

ladychef41's picture
ladychef41

I don't, but if you find one, I would LOVE to have it too!


 


Wendy

Cooking202's picture
Cooking202

I have a couple of recipes for School Cafeteria Rolls that sort of fit the description you gave.  If you like I will be happy to post them.


Carol

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

I think those are probably my earliest memories of fresh baked bread and have left the strongest impression of what it smells and tastes like.


Please post the recipes.

Cooking202's picture
Cooking202

 School Lunchroom Rolls

This recipe came from the files of a retired cafeteria manager from Pascagoula, Mississippi.

2 1/2 pounds plain flour
1/2 cup dry milk
1/2 cup granulated sugar
1 1/2 tablespoons salt
1/4 cup instant yeast
3/4 cup melted, cooled butter or shortening (room temperature)
3 cups lukewarm water

Sift together all of the dry ingredients. Mix Well, Add yeast, lukewarm water and cooled melted butter. Beat 15 minutes (important). Let rise.

Roll out to 1/2- to 3/4-inch thick. Cut out rolls with cutter. Place on greased pans. Let rise again. Bake at 350 degrees F until done. Butter tops. Makes 65 rolls.


 


 Cafeteria Lady Rolls


 Ready in: 2 hrs
 Serves/Makes:   16   


Ingredients:
4 cups flour
2 tablespoons yeast
1 tablespoon salt
3 tablespoons sugar
1/2 cup melted shortening (may use butter)
1 3/4 cup warm milk


 Directions:


Add yeast to warm milk and let sit 1 minute; stir and add melted shortening.

Have dry ingredients ready and add to milk. Slowly mix on medium speed until the dough no longer sticks to the side of the bowl.

Place dough in a well-greased bowl and let rise until doubled in bulk. Stir down and form into rolls (note that dough is sticky) and let them rise again. Bake at 425degrees until brown and brush with butter while hot.


 

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Thanks much Cooking202.

summerbaker's picture
summerbaker

Thanks for posting these recipes!  They look like they would produce some yummy yeast rolls quickly.


Summer

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

thanks so much !

shallots's picture
shallots

From south of Jackson Tennessee, a friend's Mother's recipe much beloved in his hometown has a dough made without yeast for the first rise of about an hour, and then the addition of yeast for the second rise.  Then shaping. 


I can see how this would fit a morning's cooking before lunches.  I also wonder if these rolls were so loved because the aromas overrode the other less good things that used to be in cafeteria lunches and because the cafeterias themselves were warm and welcoming.

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

Hmmm.. interesting concept, but not sure if it could really be a rise, more like a "rest".  Would love it if you could share the recipe?


You are so right though.. the rolls in school were the best part of the day for me.  I went to high school in a really tiny town in Oklahoma (Dad was in the military) and the school was so small, there were only 8 graduating seniors in my class. 


The school district was very poor and three out of the 5 school days were boiled beans and these massive, gorgeous rolls.  I couldn't wait!  We'd grab our tray, get loaded up on some beans and another cook would put a dollop of butter in the beans.  Next, another cook would grab a giant roll and tear it in half and smear a glob of peanut butter mixed with honey on the roll. 


God, it was heaven.  A lovely memory indeed.

tgiles's picture
tgiles

Delicious, amazing, so glad I found this site. 

Schnapps's picture
Schnapps

I can not wait to make these rolls!! At my school, they were served with a wonderful bowl of soup/stew they called "Spring Garden" It had ground meat, green beans and a stewed tomato base...the spice  used in it was called "Chili Mac" I have never been able to duplicate it...And it was divine...It was my favorite day in our school cafeteria when they served this!! Anyone have the recipe for it??

MangoChutney's picture
MangoChutney

It sounds as if they made the dish known as "chili mac" but with green beans substituting for the elbow macaroni used in that dish.  You might search for chili mac recipes and see what spices are used in those.

DarnDough's picture
DarnDough

I have tried the School Lunchroom rolls recipe and it did not come out right.   The folls came out dry and like biscuits instead of the soft, heavenly rolls.  My wife said that I kneeded them too much and made it that way.  Please help. 

alabubba's picture
alabubba

I seriously doubt that you over kneaded them, unless you did it in a Food Processor. The dough for these rolls is very soft. If they turned out dry I can only speculate that the dough may have been dry.

pamoreland's picture
pamoreland

I made these today.  They are great! 

Jender's picture
Jender

Hi,


My Nana was the "Cafeteria Lady" at my elementary school in Middletown, Virginia. Her rolls were the absolute best and I have never found any that can compare.  The closest were the rolls at Granby High School in Norfolk, Virginia when I was a Junior and Senior there.


My mom and my Nana had a falling out and I never got her recipe, so this means the world to me.  Thanks so much.  I can't wait to try them!  Those were the good old days!  Everyone ate the cafteria lunch.  It costs a quarter and ice cream was a nickel.  Nana would always put a nickel on my tray when I went through the line and I felt so very special.  Memories in my heart forever!


Thanks again for your kind sharing!  :)


 


 

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

These rolls are wonderful and remind me of the rolls I had growing up as well. I've made them twice and they've gotten scarfed down both times + they're so darn easy to make - don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing =).

margieluvschaz's picture
margieluvschaz

These rolls were just what I was looking for last night.  I made a homey turkey breast dinner for my hubby who had been away for a month on business.  They reminded me of rolls frm a restaurant in Dallas called the Black Eyed Pea.  Everyone loved them- thank you so much for sharing!

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

Which recipe did you use? 


My grandmother would always use shortening in her rolls.  She swore it gave her the height and lightness she needed. 

margieluvschaz's picture
margieluvschaz

Hi-


I made the cafeteria rolls because it was for 5 of us.   The other recipe looked great as well but 65 rolls were more than we would be using.  I might make that recipe when  I have  more people tpo cook for.  I used softened butter but I'll try your grandmother's way with butter flavor crisco next time.  Have you or your grandmothter ever used any wheat flour in the recipe?   The last one got eaten this morning! 


Margie

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

Not sure what her logic was or her preference was for the shortening.  It was her choice over butter, however.  She never made her rolls with wheat flour that I am aware of, but you would probably have no issue with half wheat/half white.  May have to adjust your hydration, however. 


The other recipe can be easily scaled, I laughed out loud when I saw the 65 roll count.  I was thinking of cutting it in half and freezing balls of dough for "rolls anytime"  Even so, you still have to eat alot of rolls! :)

cgmeyer2's picture
cgmeyer2

i've tried this several times with varying results.


would you please tell me how you do this. i would love to have all of my rolls cook correctly.

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

I'm not sure if its the right way to do it, but I shape mine into balls and freeze them individually on a cookie sheet lined with Parchment.  Once frozen, I remove them to a zip lock bag and keep them in the freezer.  When I want them, I just take out what I want since they are individually frozen. 

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Anyone want to try the bakers math on these?

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Made the Cafeteria lady rolls last night for dinner. They were light and fluffy as anything I have ever had at a restaurant.


Baked 8 per in 8 inch round cake pans they filled to the bursting point.


I used Crisco. When I added the melted Crisco to the milk it solidified. I think melting point of Crisco is hot enough to kill the yeast so... Next time butter or lard.


allan


 

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Made these again tonight, Mixed in a head of roasted garlic. YUM


These have become my wife's fav. I asked her what she wanted for dinner tonight, she said she didn't care as long as I made more rolls!


mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

They look good.


So, what type of fat have you settled on using? Also, what brand and type of flour do you use?

alabubba's picture
alabubba

I am using butter, and Kroger brand Unbleached AP.


 


allan

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

that looks like corned beef too.  Yum!

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Our Wal-Mart deli sells smoked Turkey Legs for 2 bucks. I pulled the meat off the bone. Its about a pound of meat. Smokey and juicy and delish. Just about right for the DW and me.


 


Allan

margieluvschaz's picture
margieluvschaz

Love the garlic idea - I'll have to try that soon! Thanks! My family loves them as well!


Margie

Syd's picture
Syd

To allabubba and BellesAZ: 


 


Did you convert the recipe to weight meaurements or did you just use the cup measures as per the recipe? 


 


I love the crumb Allan achieved.  Those strands of gluten look long and silky, the rolls soft and luxurious.  BelleAZ's have risen beautifully, too.  Both batches look very appetizing. 


 


Would love to try them myself but have no idea what kind of dough to aim for.  I haven't used cup measures for years and I know that they can be very inaccurate.  I did some research on the net and discovered that, depending on how you fill the cup, a cup of flour can weigh anything from 113g (4 ounces) to 142 (5 ounces).  That is quite a big discrepancy and will make a huge difference to the outcome of the dough.   I did the math just to illustrate the point.  I rounded the figures off just to make it more readable.


First I used the lower weight.                         Grams      BP


4 cups flour                                                              450g    100%
2 tablespoons yeast                                                 20g       4.5%
1 tablespoon salt                                                       18g       4%
3 tablespoons sugar                                                 40g       9%
1/2 cup melted shortening (may use butter) 110g     25%
1 3/4 cup warm milk                                               410g     91%  (Assuming a cup is 236ml=236g)


                                  Total dough weight             1048g   233.5%


 


Next I used the higher weight.                       Grams      BP


4 cups flour                                                                 570g    100%
2 tablespoons yeast                                                    20g       3.5%
1 tablespoon salt                                                          18g       3%
3 tablespoons sugar                                                   40g       7%
1/2 cup melted shortening (may use butter)   110g     20%
1 3/4 cup warm milk                                                 410g     72%


                                  Total dough weight                1168g   205.5%


 


The first formula has a hydration of 91%, whereas the second has a hydration of 72%.  That is a huge difference.  About the difference between a ciabatta dough and a baguette dough.  How much would you estimate was the hydration of the dough you made? 


 


Secondly, 3.5 - 4.5% yeast (if it was instant yeast) is a lot of yeast.  That combined with the warm milk and the large amount of sugar must have had it tripled and all over the kitchen floor in less than an hour.  I am just wondering how this affected the flavor.


 


Thirdly, I have never made bread with such a large percentage of shortening and would expect it to be cakey but with those long strands of gluten it looks anything but cakey.  It seems to defy all logic.


 


Finally, I have never mixed anything higher than 80% hydration by hand.  (I don't have a stand mixer).  Is it possible to mix such a high hydration dough (assuming the higher figure of 91%) by hand. 


 


Would love to hear any other details of perhaps how you changed the recipe, baking times, tips, etc.


 


Much appreciated,


Syd


 


 


 


 


 

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

Syd, I did not measure my flour.  I weighed mine using ounces and just "guessed" as to what a cup should weigh.  I assigned 4.5 ounces per cup.  I did, however, measure out the milk and the remaining ingredients.


My dough was tacky and sticky, but nothing like it would be with a 90% hydration.  I'd go with the lower hydration percentage, even though it's pretty sticky.  I was tempted to add more flour, but didn't and it turned out beautifully and my crumb was like Allabubba - just didn't get a picture of it before they were eaten! :)


Hope this helps.  Will be interested in seeing how yours turn out.  I'm making some cinnamon rolls using the dough today.  Allabubba told me that they work nicely for that style, so I look forward to trying it!

Syd's picture
Syd

They look great but they were too salty for my liking.  Entirely my fault, though.  I should have weighed my salt like I usually do but instead I just used a tablespoon full.  That after I took the trouble during the week to find out how much a tablespoon of salt weighed (18g by my reckoning - at least with my measuring spoon and my salt).  That is 4% salt: double what I usually put in my bread. 


 


I used 19 ounces of flour (540g) like Allan did.  That resulted in a 76% hydration dough and it wasn't at all unmangeable.  After a few minutes of slap and fold it came away from the counter easily.  It didn't even stick to my hands.  (Probably because of the large amount of butter in the recipe).  


 


Will definitely try again but, next time, will use 2% salt.  Another mistake I made was to brush the tops with salted melted butter.  Should have used unsalted.  These kind of rolls are not meant to be savory.  At least not in the way, say, foccacia is.


 



 



Many thanks to Allan and BelleAZ for their input and also to Cooking02 (the original poster) for the recipe.


 


Syd

alabubba's picture
alabubba

They look delish syd, And you say you made them without a mixer! More proof that people made bread at home before KitchenAids.


allan

alabubba's picture
alabubba

In the last couple batches I have made I weighed my flour out to 19 ounces. I have done 18 ounces, and 20 ounces, They both came out great as well.


I have also experimented with the yeast quantity. 2 Tablespoons was just too much. I got it down to as low as 2 tsp with out noticeable changes to rise time but it started to loose its delicate crumb structure.


I have also used vegetable oil and they came out good as well.


That all said, here is where I stand.


19 oz AP flour


1 Tablespoons yeast


1 Tablespoons salt


3 Tablespoons sugar


4 oz butter


14 oz warm milk


Seems like I make these every other day. (Wait, I DO make these every other day) lol


My daughter came over for dinner last night and I put some rolls on the table while dinner was still cooking. She ate one and said they tasted just like the ones from the school lunch room.


Then she ate another. ;O)


 


Allan

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Syd, Let me see if I can answer your questions.


First, The dough is soft, and slightly sticky, Not at all difficult to work with. Along the lines of the Baguette dough.


Secondly, 2 tablespoons was much too much yeast in my opinion. I can see in a commercial kitchen where you need to follow a production schedule but I think it gave them an odd taste. 1 tablespoon is the sweetspot that I am at.


3rd, The crumb is very soft, but extremely tender. Don't think cake, think Wonderbread.


4th, I have made Jason's quick ciabatta by hand so Yes. it is possible to make high hydration dough by hand. This bread gets it delicate crumb with lots of gluten development. I would do an autolyse, followed by some serious kneading using Richard Bertinet's Slap & Fold technique.


Do try them. you will be hooked, and thanks for the bakers math.


I generaly divide them into sixteen, 70 gram rolls and bake them in 2, standard, 9 inch round cake pans. for about 20 minutes.


 


Allan

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

I bow to your bravery to make Jason's ciabatta bread by hand!  LOL, you deserve an award for that!  I bet your all muscled and buffed now. ROFL


I too thought 2 TBS was too much.  I made them the first time just as written, but the second time, reduced to 1 TBS of instant yeast and thought that worked nicely.  I've used butter and a combo of butter and crisco, melted and cooled.  To be honest.. I have enjoyed both.


Good luck Syd.

Syd's picture
Syd

Many thanks to both Allan and Belle for those detailed replies.  That information really helps a lot.  I did the math again and at 18 ounces Belle's hydration worked out to be 80%.  Allan's 19 ounces results in a 76% hydration.  I think I will try the lower hydration first given that I am going to hand mix them. 


Interesting comment about the yeast, Allan.  You noted that when you cut it down to 2 teaspoons you lost that delicate structure. That would be a pity.  It is that delicate structure that is perhaps their most appealing feature.  Still, two tablespoons of yeast seems excessive and I would worry that they would have an overtly yeasty flavor. 


 


Thanks to both of you for all the other interesting details re: shortening, autolyse and baking.  I will be sure to try them this weekend.


Syd

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

Just an update on the cinnamon rolls - it was a disaster.  I made a caramel to go under the dough for the second rise and the dough is just so soft and tender that it did not absorb the caramel well at all.  They were undercooked, spongy, wet and wobbly underneat.  If you make cinnamon rolls, I'd avoid that and just stick with a glaze that you put on when done.  Live and learn.


I'm making again today, but this time just rolls.  We're having Navy Bean Soup for dinner.  I'm feeling "Fallish"

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

cinnamon rolls. Could you cut them horizontally and toast them ?

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

Waste not want not.  I actually did that last night after they cooled a bit.  I had a bad feeling that would happen.  The rolls themselves were delicious.  The bread had a stunning and gorgeous crumb, very soft like freshly baked Wonder bread.. lol.  I know, sounds awful, but they are simply addicting!

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

I must try them, they just sound too sinfully good.

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

LOL, they are.  They are like yeast crack cocaine.. totally addicting.  Right Allabubba?  :)

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Absolutely right. I am sorry that your cinnamon rolls didn't come out.


Cinnamon rolls from lunch lady rolls.


Mix the dough as directed. Give a first rise. Punch down and roll out to about 1/4 inch thick. I didn't measure out how big this was but probably something like 20x24 inches.


I spread with some softened butter (I used a basting brush and just sort of painted it on) Be sure to leave the top couple inches clear so it will seal.


Then I tossed on a couple of handfuls of brown sugar, prolly about 1 cup and spread that on as well.


Next I shook some cinnamon on. I have no idea how much but I like cinnamon so prolly a Tablespoon or more.


Roll up, and cut into 16 pieces and place into your pans. Let them proof until almost doubled and bake per the recipe.


When cool, apply your favorite topping, I like either cooked glaze or cream-cheese frosting.


This was a spur of the moment thing, Next time I make them I will try to measure things better.


allan


 

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

I made this recipe today - I actually doubled it.  I put up 1 loaf of bread, one pan of rolls for dinner tonight and I used the leftover dough and got 8 large cinnamon rolls which were perfect.  If I hadn't shared one with the dog, I would have felt like a pig today.  LOL

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Glad to hear your cinnamon rolls came out.


I love this dough. It is so versatile. Granted its not a fancy artisan bread, but I can bang out a batch of this and then have time to do more creative stuff, safe in the knowledge that there will be delicious fresh bread for my family.


What were you salt/yeast measures? did you cut them back from the original recipe???


allan

margieluvschaz's picture
margieluvschaz

I'm with you- I love this recipe & so does the family.  No guilt here!  Love hearing the yummy noises they make when they are eating the rolls!


Margie

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

Thanks!  Since I doubled my dough, I added 1 TBS for the whole thing.  I also used a scant over 2 TBS instant yeast for the whole thing. 


Last night we had roast beef and gravy and we served the rolls open face with gravy and beef.  It was beyond words good.  Keep in mind, my husband isn't from the USA, so he's never experienced school lunch rolls before and he is constantly asking for these.


The bread turned out really great.  It isn't substantive like you'd get in a rye or a sourdough, but that's not the effect you're most likely looking for when you bake this bread.  I prefer my grandmother's bread recipe for bread - it is very similar to this, but more rich and ethereal for bread.  It also makes three loaves which generally last us a good week to 10 days.


The cinnamon rolls were the bomb!  The dough was easy to work with once the first rise is out of the way, it's a bit wet before that, but I don't let the wet dough tempt me to add more flour.  I just throw it into the dough doubler a big, sticky mess.  It always comes out perfect.

msbreadbaker's picture
msbreadbaker

BellesAZ, Are you willing to post your grandmother's bread recipe? Looking forward to it, if you can share. Thanks, Jean P. (VA)

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

My Grandmother used to bake 20 loaves of this bread at a time during ranching season.  She fed 9 kids, 6 ranch hands - you can imagine they would eat all of this in one day! 


Grandma A's Ranch Hand Bread
Yield:  3 Loaves

INGREDIENTS:

4 cups or 1 lb 4 ounces of All Purpose Flour
1.5 tablespoons instant yeast (see directions if using active dry yeast)
3 tablespoons sugar
4 tablespoons melted butter
4 cups milk, heated to lukewarm
5-6 Cups or 1 lb 14 (approx) Bread Flour 
1.5 tablespoons salt

DIRECTIONS:


Add AP flour, instant yeast, sugar and salt to a large mixing bowl or to the bowl of your stand mixer. Mix together well. (If using active yeast, don't add salt just yet!).  Using the paddle attachment of your mixer, add the milk and melted butter gradually and mix together until dough forms a smooth batter. Some lumps are OK.

Next, attach the dough hook and begin adding your bread flour one cup on Speed 2 until each cup is well incorporated.  Reserve one cup of the flour and only add it if your dough continues to act too sticky.  If it is too sticky, add remaining flour a few TBS at a time until the dough barely pulls away from the sides of the bowl.  It should still act sticky on the bottom of your mixer.


Turn your mixer off and let your dough rest for about 15-20 minutes.  I just leave the dough hook in the dough and cover it with a tea towel.


IF USING ACTIVE DRY YEAST = Add your salt and mix on speed 2 for several minutes to fully incorporate the salt.  This step doesn't hurt your dough if you've used instant yeast too!  


Remove to a well oiled bowl and let rise for about 45 minutes to an hour.  Watch carefully as it can rise pretty fast! 


Remove dough to a floured surface and gently divide into three equal parts.  Form each part into a ball and let rest for 10 minutes.  Shape each piece carefully into a loaf, sprinkle with some flour and let rise in a bread pan for about one hour.  Bake 375 degrees for about 35-40 minutes.  This bread gets good oven spring.


This dough is very versatile and can easily be used to make cinnamon rolls or dinner rolls. 


IGNORE MY PAINTERS TAPE.. I was getting ready to paint my kitchen.  LOL


Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

Alan:


I finally got around to making your final lunch lady roll recipe you sent to me. I took them to a potluck lunch at work last Tuesday and they were devoured! These are the rolls of my dreams and will definitely be on the Thanksgiving table Thursday. Thanks for tweaking the recipe until it was exactly right.


Trish

amauer's picture
amauer

Traditional baking used Lard for biscuits, pie crust, and other baked goods. They also used butter for many. This use of shortening came about basically as a depression era vegetable oil (Hydrogenated oil) replacement for lard. Margarine was invented to be a vegetable oil (Oleo) cheap replacement for butter. In cookies if people wanted higher soft cookies with little flavor, they used marargine or shortening, but no crunch. The high incidents of heart attack deaths in men in the 50's has now been cast suspect with the high use of margarine in baking and cooking. Lard is still preferred by many for some baked goods and frying, but butter reigns for flavor. In cookies the use of oil and butter gives good flavor and a nice crumby texture. Personally, I think that Julia Child would disapprove if I ever brought a stick of maragrine into my home. Andrea

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

Well, luckily my Grandmother wouldn't dream of seeking anyone's approval for her baking.  Otherwise, I would have missed out on some of the most fantastic foods I've ever had.  She had 9 kids and lived on an isolated cattle ranch.  Tons of milk, eggs and butter at her disposal, but sometimes she used interesting ingredients that were not "needed" but desired.  For example, her pie crusts were made from bear fat rendered each fall after hunting season.  Even later in life, if someone got a bear during a season, she'd ask them for the fat and render it all day in a low oven, then she'd can it.  Her pies, made with bear fat provided a superior crust, light and flakey and if you had ever had one of her pies, you would most likely agree.  A steady supply of good butter was never an issue in her case - they had it at their disposal.  The issue was flavor, texture and taste.  


And before you wonder, she died at age 102 after a fall and all 9 children are still alive with the exception of one, who died of diabetes related issues.  The oldest is 88 and the youngest is 72.  None are taking high cholesterol drugs, which is probably testimony to an active life and lifestyle as well as diet.


According to the CDC, the increase in heart attack deaths in the 1950's was mainly a result of stress.  I'm sure that if arteries had already not been clogged with Imperial Margarine, the increase wouldn't have been as obvious. 


The truth is that margarine had been killing people prematurely all along..  well before the 50's and it's roots reach back to the Victorian era, where "margarine" was first invented.   I found this interesting historic data from a leading cancer doctor in the UK:



"Up to the 19th-century, fat was relatively expensive and butter was a luxury. The poor lived mainly on potatoes and bread, which were cheap, supplemented whenever possible with whatever source of protein and fat they could afford. Not surprisingly, mortality was high amongst the poorer classes. To fill the gap in the market cheap substitutes for butter began to be produced in the last quarter of the Victorian era. Made from cheaper fats and coloured yellow to mimic the look, if not the taste of butter, they were called margarine. And this started, quite slowly at first, a radical change in the types of fat we, as a nation, ate.


Originally margarines were made of beef suet, milk and water. Later the recipes changed to include lard, whale oil and the oils of olive, coconut, ground nut and cottonseed. By the middle of the 20th-century an emulsion of soya bean and water was substituted for the milk and margarines could be made entirely of inexpensive oils from vegetable sources. In all these forms, margarine was the poor relation to butter.


In the 1920s a new disease had suddenly 'taken off' all over the industrialised world. By the 1940s it had become a leading cause of premature death - and nobody knew why. In 1950, an American scientists hypothesised that cholesterol might be to blame. (1) In 1953, another American, Ancel Keys, compared levels of this disease in seven countries with the amounts of fat in those countries. (2) And so was born the 'Diet-Heart' hypothesis, for the new disease was coronary heart disease."


BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

 


The ever-interesting Wenatchee World never disappoints. Case in point: the "I can't believe they battled over butter" story in the Central Washington paper.

A culinary argument between a brother and sister about whether to use butter or margarine turned violent, resulting in an attack with a knife-edged barbecue spatula, police say.


A 21-year-old man called East Wenatchee police on June 6 to say his 17-year-old sister had just attacked him and tried to cut his neck with the serrated edge of the spatula, wrote Officer Carrie Knouf in a police report filed in Douglas County Superior Court.

The sister told Knouf she was making macaroni and cheese when her brother asked if she was using butter.

"They began to argue over the difference of real butter to margarine," wrote Knouf in the report.

The verbal argument escalated into a shoving match, and then the sister is accused of trying to cut her brother, Knouf wrote.


The paper reports the girl was charged in Douglas County Superior Court with fourth-degree assault. Which raises a critical question: WWWWJCS? (What in the [Wenatchee] world would Julia Child have said?)

alabubba's picture
alabubba

We really need to know who was on what side so I know who to root for!

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

Unfortunately, it didn't say!  LOL 

amauer's picture
amauer

The Juia thing was a joke. Everyone used shortening and margarine back then. I wasn't directing anything at your Grandma or her recipe. I was going to post her roll recipe, but do not want to offend anyone else. Andrea

alabubba's picture
alabubba

I don't see any offense in what you said. I to am a firm believer in butter and lard.


Butter and lard are honest. They don't claim to be better than anything. They don't claim to be healthy. They are FAT. You know it, they know it. Deal with it. But sometime you need fat to make yummy food. Julia knew this too.


 


allan

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

You perhaps misunderstood my post.  I wasn't offended at all, but I just captured an image of my feisty Grandmother and her reaction to Julia Child should she have scolded her for using shortening.  Please, no offense taken. 


My point only was that the poor during the Victorian era couldn't afford butter, so they made do with suet and other fats like bacon drippings.  They also didn't have the luxury of medical care and most likely, the medical community either hadn't made the connection between fats and heart health, or they simply didn't care because of monetary status. 


I had never tasted margarine until college, when I too could not afford expensive butter!  My british father in law told me that he used meat drippings on toast as a meal during the war.  I can't imagine being that poor - but they had no idea that it was bad for you.  I believe they accepted early deaths as perfectly natural. 


Today, we know better, thank goodness.

EvaB's picture
EvaB

since my Grammy would have been definitely opinionated about what was good and not particularly good, she probably would have agreed with Julia about the fat versus margerine thing, since she didn't like and didn't use any margerine or crisco ever!


For her and my mother bacon drippings were the fat of choice, and not those nice rendered clean ones either, the ones right out of the frying pan with bits of brown stuff included.


Lard while being a fat as someone said is also homogenized since here its on the shelf with the crisco, and not in the cooler (we are told there is no need to refrigerate it) but if you have ever gotten pork fat (any kind including the illusive leaf) and actually renedered it in the oven (around 200 F for hours) to get pure fresh lard, you will find that the lard is much softer, and less likely to form into a nice solid mass, its sort of slimpsy as my mother would have put it. A bit more liquid than solid. But it makes the best pie crust, and other things.


The one lady was saying her grandmother used bear fat, and I agree, this makes wonderful pie crust, part of it is the diet a bear eats (mostly vegetable and full of all those phytochemicals they rave over in the health food world) and part of it is just the make up of the fat. While fat is fat, suet and lard are different and behave differently, so why wouldn't bear fat be different to pork, although bear does have pork like taste to me.


Personally I don't use margerine, my mother was of the opinion that it was killer, and we used butter, or if out of butter, sometimes bacon grease on the bread (not me since I ate very little bread anyway) I do have fond memories of cold biscuits with mustard spread on them when we were out of butter and I wouldn't eat bacon grease on them, so you adapt and do what you need to.

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

Who even had meat during the war ?  ;)


We survived on fouling apples and gravies made from burnt wheat, both apples and wheat were only allowed to be picked off the ground after everything had been harvested. (East Germany, early 1940's)


 

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

Having learned important lessons during World War I, England instituted rationing immediately at the onset of WWII.  Coupons were given for  items and shopkeepers had enough stores to supply holders with food.  They started out by rationing bacon, butter and sugar.  Later on other meats, teas, jams, canned goods, etc were included in the rationing.  There wasn't much, but England wasn't about to let their nation starve.  The working man of the household normally ate the prime parts of the meat, the children and wife were given the less important cuts.


As my father in law said, his Dad savored the fat of chops and lamb because it gave him energy to get through the working day better.  This fat was also used as a apread for toast - bread was not rationed, at least during the early part of the war.


There was also black market foods and meats.  If you have the money, you could find more meat.

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

one of my all-time favorite books is The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society. :)

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

Hahahaha!  I'll have to ask my inlaws. 

patricia hains's picture
patricia hains

I agree.  I love that book.  Even though the  times were tragic, there is a sense of humor and hope.

EvaB's picture
EvaB

things ere during the war, but don't think it was really that much worse than my family went through during the 1930's homesteading way up in northern BC, they didn't have any funds, and a lot of the time, barely any food, with 4 teenagers and a baby in the house along with two adults.


I expect its the same as always, it depends on who is the teller of the story and who is the person who can't concieve of it being that bad ever. You have to live through some things to really believe them.


My mother who lived through the 30's on that homestead, and through the 1940's war years as a young mother, always managed to feed herself and the kids, it might not have been great food but it was food.


By the way I have a recipe for making coffee from toasted barley, which is one of the great things my health food store charges an arm and leg for these days. Mind the recipe acutally used a pound of real coffee in it, but its still interesting.

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

I can still taste it. Can't believe that someone would charge for it (sans the real coffee of course).  By the way, talking about war and resourceful moms, mine along with a girlfriend, robbed a Russian supply train parked behind our house and we lived on Borscht for a few weeks :)

EvaB's picture
EvaB

My health food store charged about 8 dollars a bottle for instant coffee substitute, that if you read the lable was roasted barley with chicory for flavour! I did buy some as my dr was of the opinion I needed to quit caffeine, and while it wasn't that bad, it just wasn't coffee. I never had the withdrawal that some people get, but I simply like the taste of coffee and just quit making 15 pots a day (I had lots of heavy coffee drinkers visiting at that time) to a more normal 2 or 3 pots. these days I have a single pot of coffee over the entire day, so have my three mugs of coffee, and maybe a bit more if I get company and make fresh.


The regular coffee in the recipe I have is an option, but most of the homesteaders would have probably managed the bit of money for that. My grandfather got a old age pension cheque of 8 dollars a month starting in about 1930 I think, mom said he bought 100 pounds of flour, a pound of coffee, a pound of tea, a pound can of tobacco, and a gallon of coal oil, and that was it, they grew everything else, or hunted for it, and for other supplies they traded or worked out. Mom worked for a dollar a day, for the farmer down the road, cleaning barns, and milking cows (they had a dairy herd) and she walked the 3 miles to and from work every day. Its all relative, I was in the store the other day, and someone was paying 11.50 for a pack of ciggarettes, I couldn't belive how costly they were, they used to be under a dollar when I was a kid, so am very glad I never took up that habit.


As for the borscht its good, not really great for working on, but hey it keeps you alive. And good for your mom and friends. In 1969 or 1970, my mother and I survived 2 weeks on nothing more than biscuits and mustard, we had a tiny bit of bacon, which we ate for breakfast, along with the biscuit, and because I was working, I had a small lunch, and then we had a biscuit and mustard for supper, not excactly great fare, but it got us through the 2 weeks until I got a pay check then we never went that hungry again. But that was really typical of July when I was  a kid, that was the month the home owners taxes had to be paid, and even with the discount from the government, we still had to pay water and sewer extra, and the money mom got just didn't cover everything that month, so we ate a lot of bread, or pancakes etc, which meant I didn't eat, as I simply didn't eat much in that line.

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

my boys and I didn't have much in the 1960s either but now that they are close to 50, all they remember are the good times we had making sand candles with a bunch of friends or sleeping under the stars going camping, not the 2 dried-up hotdogs we had for our Thanksgiving one year. Life is good !  

EvaB's picture
EvaB

but then again most people did live through them right along with us, maybe not quite as hard, but still difficult. The thing is that hard times scrabble lets me deal with difficulties now, that the younger generations who simply got it handed to them on the proverbial silver platter have no idea how to deal with.


For instance right now I have a 1200 gallon cistern tank, that is only half full, its only been filled once this year, and two half fillings, so I am very careful with my water, I only use it for flushing and dishwashing, and watering my garden, which is all in pots, and beds and not watered with a sprayer. The lawn has to take care of itself. To have water for cooking or bathing, I catch rain water (which was pretty scarce this year) and heat it in a big kettle on the stove, we have basin baths, and don't shower or use tub baths, I wash my clothes in the laundromat or at my daughters, she has city water, but this year it was so bad, the city instituted water restrictions, and wound up at level 4 mid August, no watering period, not even watering can watering of gardens. We buy bottled water for drinking, and I get really tired of the greenies who scream get rid of bottles its killing the environment. How about working on the local, state or provincial and federal governments to make recycling a real alternative, not simply lip service. I take all mine back and get a 5 cents deposit back, which certainlly helps my bottom line, but too many people are "too busy" or can't be bothered so the stuff winds up in land fills or whatever. I think we need to go back tothe war years where the cry was "make do, mend, reuse, don't waste" If more people had coffee makers mended than thrown out and a new one bought, there would be more small business people making a bit of money and less people on unemployment.

Mary Clare's picture
Mary Clare

Laura Ingalls's mother also used meat drippings when butter was unavailable, as it frequently was during the winter.  See "On the Shores of Silver Lake," chapter 23, "On the Pilgrim Way."  Laura's mother was giving cooking instructions to an itinerant preacher.  I love to read these books even as an adult. Food was.... pretty interesting, with a different sort of variety.  I find the people were very creative in 'making do.'


Mary Clare in MO

amauer's picture
amauer

I remember a chapter in which they made a brown sugar and froze it on the snow. It reminded me of my Mothers brown sugar candy we called vinegar candy because of the vinegar in it. I still make it a Christmas time in a pie plate and set it outside to harden. Andrea

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Made these again tonight. I reduced the yeast to 2-1/2 tsp. I thought the original recipe used too much. I will try reducing the yeast some more in an effort to gain even more flavor.


For anyone making these, this is a very soft dough. Don't fall into the trap of adding more flour. I think it is the soft dough that gives these rolls their fluffy interior.


I wonder if I could "Loaf" a recipe...


allan

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

 


 


These were as good as they looked.  Easy recipe, beautiful dough - even my picky son gobbled up these rolls.  They were as good as I remember.


amauer's picture
amauer

My son had smoked turkey legs the other day and we ate the meat with my white sourdough, but these buns look much more fitting, as Allan has said. The turkey legs do have quite a bit of meat on them. Your post reminds me of when sportscasters were talking about Michael Irvin of the Cowboys. He attributed his speed at being the 15th of 17 children with one chicken to go around...I am not sure of it is just a Midwest thing, but pork cutlets are still sold in my area.  We grew up eating things kids won't touch now and my favorite being these pork cutlets (the cheek of the pig). My kids find them disgusting and I still like them. I told someone last week how I came upon a tooth once, took it out of my mouth and kept on eating. Spoil your appetite when you are grateful for any meat? I really didn't have it bad at all. Our parents (my Dad was a great cook) made feasts out of nearly nothing at times. I do not know the exact statistics, but the hard working people of feudal times required 12,000 or so calories a day to survive. Imagine such hard work and scarcity of food!

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

It is mind-boggling what little someone might have and still survive.  I just finished a book on the Harvey Hotels and Fred Harvey's "Harvey Girls" who were employed by the railroad.  During the depression, it spoke of families who relied on the generosity and handouts of some of these hotels to feed their families.  It hardly seems possible that people were that poor.  But, they were. 


I think it was this drive and tenacity that caused me to fall in love with Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath" - required reading in High School.  Should be required reading in every school these days.  It left a lasting impression on me to be sure.

amauer's picture
amauer

In Angela's ashes, talking about sucking on newpaper that held fish and chips to get the grease out. We have such and abundance! The Grapes of Wrath should be required reading. "No Great Mischief by Alistair McCleod is a beautifauly written book as well. Andrea

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

I couldn't agree more!  We are very blessed. 


I work for a safari travel company and recently took a 16 day fam trip to South Africa.  I lead 10 luxury travel agents and we drove through some pretty rough areas, very poverty stricken.  Many, who had never traveled there before were shocked and didn't think their clients wanted to see such things.  For me, it's part of the experience and a reminder that we are so fortunate and that so many others are not. 


I'm continually reminded by my son - who is wise beyond his years, that there are so many others less fortunate than I.  It's usually all that I need to wake up from my self-absorbed pity party!

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

I'm not sure why there would be so much salt called for in the recipe, but I agree with you that there is.  I must admit, I don't measure, I just toss it in and most likely don't use as much as needed.  I will make my next batch with half and see how they come out.  I agree, now that you mention it, 1 TBS is alot of salt, but when I'm weighing it, I usually use 15 g as a tablepsoon measure.  18 seems like a high number, but I could be wrong. 

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Will be interested to see how the reduced salt effects the flavor and crumb? I don't find them overly salty although I was a bit shocked first time I made them with how much salt was used.


 

amauer's picture
amauer

They turned out great! Nice texture.  I had thin sliced pork tenderloin sandwiches with homemade BBQ sauce. I should have made them more like Hambuger buns, I had them in round pans, but they rose nicely. There is something to say about baking with yeast like our folks did and not having to put the dough in the frig overnight, but watch it bloom before your eyes and before supper! Andrea (tomorrow SF sourdough - yep, it's in the frig... and hopefully the dragon tail baguettes on another thread)

brewboy's picture
brewboy

I've been trying to duplicate the rolls for a while now and I can't come close. The texture of these rolls looks very similar.  The barbecue place uses frozen dough that they let rise in profing ovens, They come out great and extremely soft.


Has anyone here compared the cafeteria lady rolls to these?

margieluvschaz's picture
margieluvschaz

Hi- are you talking about the Spring Creek bbq restaurant in Plano/ Dallas area? I am from Dallas & know of that restaurant.  We ate there frequently but I haven't eaten there in years.  If I remember correctly they are close.  These rolls remind me of an all white version of the Black eyed pea rolls from Dallas.- not sure if you've been there.  I think they use a touchof wheat flour in their roll recipe.  Give them a try they are really great!


Margie

brewboy's picture
brewboy

I was referring to the locations in Arlington, Bedford and Grapevine, but we're talking about the same place. They are baked into mini loaves and brought out hot to your table in a basket. They're so soft that you can hardly cut them, because they all but collapse. 


Spring Creek barbecue is still around, but I do think the Black Eyed pea restaurants have shut down.

BNLeuck's picture
BNLeuck

The adaptation recipe that alabubba posted was my starting point for the rolls I used to make every. single. day. No, I'm not joking. I've started doubling the recipe -- which nearly killed my KA, eek! But even with having to hand-knead the dough now, it's still less work than baking them every day. Every other day is bad enough, but we like them fresh. One day old is fine, but two pushes it for me. I'm spoiled. :P


I never actually measure it anymore, but if I guesstimate the the basic formula it is about 60-70% all-purpose (King Arthur here, so bread flour's probably a good bet for those using other stuff), 30-40% dark rye flour to make up the 100%, somewhere between 70 and 75% milk (we use 1% milk, for reference), about 18.75% honey (I'm sure you could use less, but we eat these absolutely plain, so having them slightly sweet is nice and makes my kids go nuts for them, LOL), 12.5% melted butter, 2% yeast, and 1.5% kosher salt (my salt of preference).


I am probably the laziest bread baker on the face of the planet when I make these, as I stick the milk and butter in one container and toss it in the microwave, then while that heats/cools to room temp, I mix the flours with my hands, mix the salt in with my hands, mix the yeast in with my hands, and then toss in the liquids. I don't measure, I use the KA until it has a hard time kneading then continue to knead in the bowl (why dirty the counter? I'd just have to wash it! :P), I used to let it rise in the KA bowl, too, but now I make too much at once. So it goes in a dough container and sits in the oven with the light on until it doubles. Then I take out the container, turn the oven on to preheat, and shape the rolls. I let the oven preheat for a good half hour because it's old and ornery, so I just leave the baking sheet(s) of rolls near the heat and let them go for however long the oven needs. Then I toss them in and bake for 15-20 mins. I don't care if they're exactly the same every time, I just care that they're tasty and have whole grains and OMG my kids actually eat them. :D

KorbenD's picture
KorbenD

First post here.   :)


I found this recipe online while trying about a dozen others while trying to replicate the rolls at Ryan's Steak House.  So far, this is the closest I've found, and it turned out to be one of the simplest ones.


I halved the ingredients and baked till light golden brown.  Since I was using a bread machine, I didn't proof the yeast, just tossed it in.  Once slathered with honey butter, they tasted exactly like what I was hoping.


 


Ingredients



  • 4 1/2 teaspoons active dry yeast

  • 1/2 cup warm water (110 degrees F to 115 degrees F)

  • 2 cups warm milk (110 to 115 degrees F)

  • 6 tablespoons shortening

  • 2 eggs

  • 1/4 cup sugar

  • 1 1/2 teaspoons salt

  • 7 cups all-purpose flour


Directions

  1. In a large mixing bowl, dissolve yeast in warm water. Add the milk, shortening, eggs, sugar, salt and 3 cups flour; beat until smooth. Stir in enough remaining flour to form a soft dough.

  2. Turn onto a floured surface; knead until smooth and elastic, about 6-8 minutes (dough will be sticky). Place in a greased bowl, turning once to grease top. Cover and let rise in a warm place until doubled, about 1 hour.

  3. Punch dough down. Turn onto a lightly floured surface; divide into 24 pieces. Shape each into a roll. Place 2 in. apart on greased baking sheets. Cover and let rise until doubled, about 30 minutes. Bake at 350 degrees F for 20-25 minutes or until golden brown. Remove to wire racks.

brewboy's picture
brewboy

 


I just made a test batch of these based on the following amounts. It yielded 4 large rolls and was exactly the recipe I was looking for. Here are a few items that I should point out


1.    I used AP flour, but I added a teaspoon of wheat gluten


2.    Even though it shows 78% hydration, by the time I scooped it out on to a floured surface and kneaded it, I’m sure that figure went down. It was the only way I could get it manageable.  I started at 120 grams of flour, but that was almost like a very thick batter, so I added 10 more grams.


3.    I used salted butter in the recipe. I think I could lower or even eliminate the additional salt altogether, but it was still good the way it was.


4.    I cooked them in a 7” square (1 ½ qt.) buttered Corning Ware dish. Ten minutes at 425 was all that was needed.


5.    When I formed the rolls, I divided the dough up evenly into 4 balls. I went around each ball grabbing some dough at the top and stretching to the bottom and then pinching it. This made nice tight and even domes at the top.   


Thanks to all who commented in this thread. I used many of your suggestions and I now have a fantastic roll recipe.


  

Grams

      BP

Flour

130

100%

Yeast

5

4%

Salt

2

2%

Sugar

10

8%

Milk

102

78%

Butter

28

22%

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

May I ask why you did four large rolls?  It looks as if the structure might change somewhat, but who knows.. as long as it works for you!!  That's what is important. 


I've never found the need to add vital wheat gluten - this recipe just never needs it and I suspect it's because of the hydration and kneading.  I make sure I get a window pane and my dough is quite sticky going into its first rise. 


Glad you like these rolls!  So do I!

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Looks like only a small amount of recipe was made. Roll size(by weight) looks to be about the same as all those mentioned here(around 70 grams or 2.5 oz).


I make 3.2 oz buns with an egg formula similar to the one a couple of posts up. They turn out great

Deka's picture
Deka

Thank you for sharing your quest for rolls!


I didn't have a 7" pan to bake them in so I used a large muffin pan with 4 spaces.


The first batch encouraged me to try a 2nd batch which turned out even better! Hubby asked for a 2nd batch. I'm not an experienced baker so that in of itself is a testament to the instructions.


I feel that Grandmother's sprit is with me as I try to make her bread.


Thank you so very much!!!!


Deka

brewboy's picture
brewboy

Yes, I scaled down the recipe. This was just a test batch and I knew that me, myself and I would be eating anything that was baked and we don't need that much bread. :)


 


You lost me on the window pane comment. 

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

Had I read the post properly, I would have known that.  Thanks to Mr. Frost and you, brewboy,  for clarifying.  I'm a bit tired today.. I haven't caught up after my big motorcycle ride this weekend!


I use the window-pane test to see whether my gluten structure is right.  You can cut off a small chunk of your dough and steadily pull it with your fingers to see if it tears... or if it is strong enough to show some transparency without tearing.  I always know my dough is just right when I achieve that result.  I've used it for this recipe every time and it works for me.


Here is a picture that better describes what I'm talking about:



 

brewboy's picture
brewboy

I'm glad I asked, because I would have never guessed that. Nice idea and I'll give that a try next time. Thanks.


As for the wheat gluten, I started using that about a year ago. I never buy bread flour and this has given me great results for pennies and I only have to stock one type of flour.   

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

I asked about the wheat gluten because normally it isn't needed unless you're making something from whole wheat.. which, btw.. these rolls are awesome with whole wheat!

alabubba's picture
alabubba

What did you do Monday? I rendered lard, Took most of the day but I did it.


I wanted to try fresh lard in these rolls, as well as my tortillas.


I made a batch tonight (with roasted pork and root veggies) with fresh lard, it was so rich! I will cut the fat from 4oz to 3 next time and the salt came through a lot stronger even though I didn't change the amount of salt. If you thought these were tender and rich when made with butter you should try making them with lard.


Maybe our grandmothers were on to something.

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

LOL, what did you use for your lard, beef?  I can't ever forget the smell coming from my grandmother's house.. you could smell it as you walked down her road.  You knew she was rendering bear fat.  It was disgusting, but she rendered alot and put it up in jars which she kept stored in her cold cellar.  Try using that lard for a pie crust.. it's phenomenal.

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

These are too easy to make and bake.  Lately, I've been mixing the dough ahead of time and refrigerating it, taking them out to warm, rise and bake a couple hours before I need them.  The flavor is even better.  I keep getting requests for these rolls and my family is begging for them at Thanksgiving.  My husband LOVES a late night turkey sandwich and he's drooling over the idea of doing one on one of these rolls.

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

I did the same exact thing you did. I made the dough Monday night for a potluck on Tuesday at work. I was too tired to bake that night so I put the dough in the fridge and prayed they would bake up OK. Warmed the dough a bit the next morning, formed the rolls and put them close to the warm oven to raise while I got ready for work. They baked up beautifully and were devoured at the lunch. Got several requests for the recipe. This will be my "go to" dinner roll from now on. Too easy and too good to resist. Thanks to Allabubba for refining the recipe I ended up using.


Trish

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

Bake the recipe as originally written or did you adjust according to Allan's recommendations? 


Someone gifted me with a jar of peanut butter from the Peanut Butter & Co in NYC.. it's the best peanut butter I've ever tasted in my life... and I had some PB on these rolls.. Oh My!  Such a treat.


Omaha... my husband is talking to a company out of Omaha.  They want him to come to work for them, but it means we'd have to move.  I wouldn't mind.. but he's not so sure.  Do you like living there?

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

I had PM'ed Alan (Allabubba) regarding which recipe he ended up with and he kindly sent me his version which I'd be happy to send to you. I have lived in Omaha for over 40 years and actually I'm the Corporate Relocation Director for a large real estate company here in Omaha. We assist people who are relocating all day everyday =). Omaha is about 750,000 people. Just the right size for me the shopping is good, we have some lovely parks and lots of activities for sports, culture, shows, music - whatever tickles your fancy. I will PM you a link to our digitial relocation guide and you can look at it and see for your self or just go to www.npdodge.com.


Trish

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

I just sent you a pm with a link to our online relocation guide and my work e-mail. Contact me if I can assist you in any way.


Trish

chetc's picture
chetc

I am going to make the Lunch Lady rolls today. I am trying to read here, I see the amout of yeast in the recipe, but is it active dry yeast or instant yeast.


 


Lunch lady rolls

14 oz warm milk
1 Tablespoons yeast ????? what kind of yeast
3 Tablespoons sugar
4 oz butter
19 oz AP flour
1 Tablespoons salt

cover & let raise till doubled

form into rolls & let raise again

Bake at 425degrees until brown and brush with butter while hot


 


 


  thanks


      Chet

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

Chet:


It was all I had on hand and it worked just fine. Just add it to your dry ingredients. I will say these are addictive =). Make them at your own risk. Thanks to Allabubba for the recipe.

brewboy's picture
brewboy

When I made them I used Red Star active dry yeast and they came out great.  

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

I've used both types of yeast and have had great results.  My favorite is instant because I'm lazy and would rather just toss it into the mix rather than wait for it to activate with warm water.


And I agree with Ms. Trish... they ARE addictive!

madruby's picture
madruby

I got into the home bread baking craze 2-3 months ago when I was looking to make dinner rolls.  I had never done anything resembling bread at home before that.  I found KAF's recipe for dinner rolls and I became hooked on artisan bread baking ever since.  This recipe is very similar to the recipe of this posting.  KAF also has a whole blog dedicated to this recipe, with detailed instructions and pictures to help us see what the dough is supposed to look like at every step.  Hope this can be helpful to someone.


http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/golden-pull-apart-butter-buns-recipe


Also, before I bake my rolls, I usually brush some melted butter on the dough, and sprinkle it with fresh rosemary and sea salt.  For more shine (and perhaps a step closer to artery clutter), I'd sometimes brush the cooked rolls with more melted butter.  I end up with spectacular buttery, rosemary flavored dinner rolls.

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

I've made those many times in the past.. my preference is still for these lunch lady rolls.. just my opinion.  Sometimes I just feel like having a quick, delicious and huge, fluffy roll.. the softest ever.  The lunch lady does that for me. 

mgbetz's picture
mgbetz

I've been making the Lunch Lady Rolls   (smaller recipes) for months now, and we've been enjoying every bite. 

The Slap and Fold technique is what makes the critical difference for me. Kneading by KA hook alone ended up with a muffin-like texture, acceptable but s0-s0.  

Because of dietary restrictions, I've reduced the salt to 1 teaspoon, and it works well, tastes fine.

Thank you so much for this recipe and all the variations.

Back to the bench!

 

Gwen

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

I am making a couple of batches of these today and freezing them in preparation for Thanksgiving - if anyone out there hasn't tried them yet - I urge you to do so! They're the best. Thanks to Allabubba for the definitive recipe!

thomaschacon's picture
thomaschacon (not verified)

The thread is long and confusing, having several variations and multiple recipes.

Is this the allabubba roll recipe, Trish?

INGREDIENTS

19 oz AP flour
1 Tablespoons yeast
1 Tablespoons salt
3 Tablespoons sugar
4 oz butter
14 oz warm milk

DIRECTIONS

Add yeast to warm milk and let sit 1 minute; stir and add melted shortening.

Have dry ingredients ready and add to milk. Mix on medium speed until the dough no longer sticks to the side of the bowl.

Place dough in a well-greased bowl and let rise until doubled in bulk.

Stir down and form into rolls (note that dough is sticky) and let them rise again. Bake at 425degrees until brown and brush with butter while hot.

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

That's the one I use.

MickiColl's picture
MickiColl

now let me get this right .. mix just til it no longer sticks to the bowl (no intense kneading to window pane ?) . let rise, punch down, form, let rise again and then bake ?

alabubba's picture
alabubba

MickiCol, This recipe requires some intense kneading. You definatly want to reach window pane. This is a soft dough and takes several minutes in my KitchenAid to clean the bowl. 

thomaschacon's picture
thomaschacon (not verified)

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alabubba's picture
alabubba

Yes, That's it. I would remove the word "Slowly" from the directions and just beat the heck out of it.

Allan.

thomaschacon's picture
thomaschacon (not verified)

Thanks, Allan.

I love rolls. I think I'll make some today. I need something to help me with this honey. Rolls should do it.

thomaschacon's picture
thomaschacon (not verified)

I'm assuming active dry because of the warm milk step, but proofing usually takes longer than 1 minute, so not sure if active dry or instant. 

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

and it seems to work just fine. I add it with the other dry ingredients.

 

heiff's picture
heiff

I just made these a few days ago and they're amazing! So delicious, and just what I was looking for (a clone of a cafeteria yeast roll from my childhood). I have been blabbing about how great these are to everyone within hearing distance.

So I have a question for the more learned bakers here: I am using a digital scale and measuring out my AP flour very precisely, but I am finding that it remains awkwardly sticky to knead by hand, even after it is very silky and elastic. I've tried the slap/fold technique, but this does not work particularly well for me - the dough just sticks to the work surface (a plain old formica countertop). I eventually get it workable by adding small amounts of flour and oiling my hands a bit occasionally, but I feel as though I'm wasting a lot of time "fighting" with the sticky dough (more than I should be). I would estimate I'm adding no more than 2oz of flour - but is this too much? Is there some trick I'm missing to get the dough to be hand-workable without that extra flour? I've considered that this particular recipe might be more well-suited to mechanical kneading, but I'm scared to try it out with the Cuisinart Pro Classic I own, since that would knead VERY fast.

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Heiff, I use a kitchenAid mixer when I make this but I think it would work well in your Food Pro. Just knead the heck out of it. Here is a very informative article, ( Originally in russian but translated by google) We want well developed glueten, check gluten development every 15-20 seconds when using a FP. This page has some good info as well

Let me know how they come out.

Allan

heiff's picture
heiff

Thanks for the advice! I've now tried a couple of times using the food processor, both with acceptable final results, but the second attempt was a lot more well-controlled. The dough was in the workbowl for a much shorter time, and was easier to get out, with less "creep" into the blade spindle and the workbowl lid's center cap. I got good results by combining the ingredients by hand, then transferring to the food processor workbowl, and alternating about a 25-second knead (using the dough blade) with a 1-minute rest (3 times). I then turned out the dough onto a very lightly floured surface and did a final knead (about 1 minute) by hand, using scant amounts of flour to keep things from sticking. It is vastly easier to work with once the bulk of the kneading is done, which is exactly what I was hoping for!

charliec's picture
charliec

Last night I made the Cafeteria Lady Rolls, they were delicous and buttery, couldn't eat just one! My thanks to cooking202 for the recipe. Didn't think to take pictures, maybe next time.

Antilope's picture
Antilope

USDA School Cafeteria Yeast Rolls from 1988

Makes 50 Yeast Rolls on a lightly oiled sheet pan (18" x26" x1").

1/3 cup Active dry yeast (see Special Tips)
1 1/2 cups Water, warm (110 degrees F)
12 1/4 cups (3 lb 10 oz) All-purpose or bread flour
1 1/3 cups (3 1/4 oz) Instant nonfat dry milk
3/4 cup plus 2 Tbsp (5 3/4 oz) Sugar
2 Tbsp Salt
3/4 cup plus 2 Tbsp Vegetable oil
2 1/2 cups Water (68 degrees F)

1. Dissolve dry yeast in warm water. Let stand for 4-5 minutes.

2. Place all dry ingredients (flour, dry milk, sugar, and salt) in mixer bowl. Using a dough hook, blend on low speed for approximately 2 minutes.

3. Add oil and blend on low speed for approximately 2 minutes.

4. Add water. Mix on low speed for 1 minute.

5. Add dissolved yeast and mix on low speed for 2 minutes.

6. Knead dough on medium speed for 8 minutes, or until dough is smooth and elastic.

7. Place dough in warm area (about 90 degrees F) for 45-60 minutes.

8. Punch down dough to remove air bubbles.

9. Form rolls from dough by pinching off 2-oz pieces and shaping. Place rolls on lightly oiled sheet pans (18" x26" x1") in rows of 10 down and 5 across. For 50 servings, use 1 pan. 

10. Place in a warm area (about 90 degrees F) until double in size, 30-50 minutes.

11. Bake until lightly browned:
Conventional Oven: 400 degrees F, 18-20 minutes.
Convection Oven: 350 degrees F, 12-14 minutes.

12. Optional: Brush lightly with melted butter or margarine (approximately 1 Tbsp per pan) while warm.

--

Special Tips:
To use high-activity (instant) yeast, follow directions below or manufacturer's instructions.

50 servings: Omit step 1. In step 2, add 1/4 cup high-activity (instant) yeast. Continue with step 3. In step 4, add 1 qt water (110 degrees F). Omit step 5. In step 6, knead for 10 minutes. Continue with steps 7-12.

--

Variations:

A. Frankfurter Rolls
50 and 100 servings: Follow steps 1-8. In step 9, shape 2-oz pieces of dough to approximately 2 1/2" x 6 1/2 ". Place rolls on lightly oiled sheet 
pans in rows of 8 down and 4 across. Continue with steps 10-12.

B. Hamburger Rolls
50 and 100 servings: Follow steps 1-8. In step 9, shape and flatten 2-oz pieces of dough to approximately 4" in diameter. Place rolls on lightly oiled sheet pans in rows of 6 down and 4 across. Continue with steps 10-12.

C. Wheat Rolls
50 servings: Follow step 1. In step 2, use 1 lb 13 oz (1 qt 2 1/2 cups) all-purpose or bread flour and 1 lb 13 oz (1 qt 2 3/4 cups) whole-wheat flour. Continue with steps 3-12.


Source: USDA Recipes for Schools, from the "1988 Quantity Recipes for School Food Service".

http://www.nfsmi.org/Templates/TemplateDefault.aspx?qs=cElEPTEwMyZpc01ncj10cnVl

http://www.nfsmi.org/USDA_recipes/school_recipes/B-16.pdf

DulceBHbc's picture
DulceBHbc

I made these in anticipation of Thanksgiving dinner. This is what I did that veered a bit from the original recipe:

—Didn't have whole milk, so I used half half-and-half (7 oz.) and half skim milk (7 oz.).
—I forgot to mix the sugar into the dry ingredients in the beginning, so I put it in after the dough had already gone through the mixer. I might have overbeat it due to this.

Here's how it looked after I shaped them into balls:



Here's how the balls looked after about 1.5 hours of proofing:



Here's how they looked out of the oven:



Note that they lack the nice, uniform rounded tops. They were also much more burnt on the bottom than at top. The tops and edges were all crispy. I know I didn't overbake them because the inside was still rather undone when I cut through one of them.

Here's a photo of the crumb and crust:



Help! What did I do wrong?