The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Getting it in the oven

LindaO's picture
LindaO

Getting it in the oven

OK-I swear I know how to bake. That being said I have tried 3 times and can't get a single loaf of sourdough in the oven withour screwing it up? Seriously... AARRGGGHH!! I do not have a basket that I see people use in the videos, I tried heavy flouring a lined towel and it did not work.  My first two did not rise. I was so very hopeful when I saw that my boule looked good and when I tried to invert it onto my peel it stuck to the towel.  A string of exlitives followed and I fix it the best I could , scored it, and threw the sucker on the stone.  I figured after careful attending for two days I was at least going to bake it.  I can't buy those baskets so any other suggestions.  I'm getting frustrated.  I think I'm going to bake some ciabatta to make myself feel better...and maybe some wine. LOL

dstroy's picture
dstroy

parchment paper is your friend! :)

LindyD's picture
LindyD

Hi LindaO,

Have a couple of glasses of wine, then put parchment on your shopping list.

Proof your dough on the parchment, then when it's ready to be baked, just slide the parchment (with the dough) from your peel to your stone.

Then enjoy a celebratory glass of wine!

Oh, and check for restaurant supply stores in your area - they sell parchment a heck of a lot cheaper than markets or mail order.  

neoncoyote's picture
neoncoyote

During the first 13 minutes of my bake, I use steam and set the oven at 525. After removing the steam source, I turn it down to 475...but I'm never below 450. Has anyone had any experience using parchment at 525? If it works, I've been making my life unnecessarily difficult (and caught the element on fire) with a pizza peel and flinging cornmeal!

Chuck's picture
Chuck

You're right strictly speaking, the melting point of Silicone is somewhere between 450F and 500F (I think it's actually 462F).

But just as old cookbooks called for lining cake pans with wax paper (even though exposed wax paper ignites quite easily at temperaturs much lower than cake baking), you can use parchment paper at higher temperatures with just a little care. The paper that's actually in contact with the bread will probably only get to 375F even though the open oven temperature is much hotter. And you can take advantage of the fact that melting or ignition tends to start at exposed corners by cutting the corners off round with scissors after proofing but before going in the oven. If you're really paranoid -or have a very very hot oven-, use the scissors more aggressively to trim the whole thing fairly close (1+1/2 inches?) to the proofed loaf.

I've baked with parchment at 475F quite a bit (475F is not quite as hot as yours, although in reality my oven cycles between 450F and 500F to get 475F on average), and I've found parchment paper pretty forgiving. Parts of it just get brown/scorched to let you know you should be more careful next time; nothing really horrible happens. I once even put a square piece (corners not cut) in wrong so the parchment hung over my baking stone and received heat directly from the bottom element: the paper got almost black and I got scared  ...but even then it didn't melt or ignite.

(I've also baked on a Silpat [which has the same temperature limitation] under the same conditions. That worked pretty well too. One problem was I couldn't wash off some of the dirty streaks on the Silpat. And the other was knowing that if I ever made a mistake with the peel and let the Silpat hang over an edge of my baking stone, the Silpat would likely be irretrievably ruined.)

The big worry in theory is some of the Silicone melting and absorbing into the bread. But since the parchment paper directly under the loaf stays a whole lot cooler, this is never really a problem even in a very hot oven; the parchment paper in direct contact with the loaf never gets anywhere near hot enough to melt.

(My experience though is that parchment paper that's reached really high temperatures comes out of the oven wrinkly and crinkly and brittle, and can't be reused easily.)

LindyD's picture
LindyD

I always bake my bagels on parchment at 500F (18-20 minutes).  Have never had any issues with parchment and while it does turn brown, it isn't charred.

Using a natural gas oven and bake on a stone.

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi LindaO

Parchment paper is far safer and cleaner to use in a domestic oven than trying to do the semolina or cornmeal method of transfer. If you only use it to do the transfer from the peel to the stone and then slip it out from under the loaf after it's 'set' (10 minutes-roughly) you'll have a very close approximation of a hearth baked bread from a professional deck oven . On the other hand your fallback strategy of wine and Ciabatta has a lot of merit as well!

All the best,

Franko

Chuck's picture
Chuck

I was plagued by covering my proofing dough with some sort of cloth, only to have the cloth stick. From necessity I got fairly good at using a tableknife at the most stuck spots to peel the stuck cloth away bit by bit without leaving hardly any marks.

(The cloths were for the top. What always worked for me for the bottom was parchment paper: Mostly I proof right on the paper, slip the paper onto my peel, and slide the whole thing in the oven. I've turned some loaves out of a rising basket onto parchment paper, and that works too.

If I take the paper out of the oven after the loaf has "set" it works perfectly. Leaving the parchment paper in the oven the whole time works too, except I lose any moisture absorbing benefit of my baking stone, which in theory makes the bottom crust a little less crunchy. For me, this is hardly noticeable, so I just leave the parchment paper in the whole time because that's easier.)

I got tired of all the picky tableknife work to get the cloth unstuck from the top, and eventually made two changes that together really solved the problem:

  1. I got a piece of real linen (couche cloth) to use, rather than just using whatever towels I had at hand.
  2. I mixed half rice flour and half semolina. (I put mine in a giant shaker too [http://www.thefreshloaf.com/tools#comment-117813] to make it even easier to use.) I use this on cloths rather than the regular flour.
neoncoyote's picture
neoncoyote

Thank you, Chuck...I was just reminded that yours was the post responsible for my great results today (details in a separate posting). I appreciate your taking the time to extensively discuss the merits of parchment paper...I don't think I'll ever bake with my old cornmeal method again!

LindaO's picture
LindaO

Thanks for all the advice. The parchement worked, but my rise was still poor.  Going to rev up my starter adn see if that works.    

neoncoyote's picture
neoncoyote

Linda, have you tried shaping your loaves with a tighter skin on top? I'm thinking this has the possibility of really turning up your oven spring, more so than attempting to punch up your starter -- at least that's the case for me. Take a look at dmsnyder's boule shaping tutorial. I've never shaped boules like that, and judging by today's results, I'll keep using that method. Good luck :) .

noyeast's picture
noyeast

do your final proove on a greased oven tray and place the whole thing, loaf and tray into your hot oven sitting right on top of your stone.  Almost as good as peeling it onto the stone but a whole lot easier.

Either that or reduce your water content to make peeling easier.