The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

make parts easier to find?

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Chuck's picture
Chuck

make parts easier to find?

While the current handbook organization is fine for beginning-to-end reading, it's kinda hard to locate just one specific item of interest. I use books both ways ("all the way through" and "read a particular chapter"), and I wish I could more easily use the handbook both ways too. For example, I knew David's treatise on scoring was in the handbook somewhere. Even so, it took me several rather frustrating minutes to locate it.


Here's a couple ideas I think would have helped me find that material:


First, can the Tables of Contents be multi-level rather than just single-level? From the topmost TOC, I'd like to at least be able to figure out the best route down to any item of interest. Currently I have to "guess" (too often wrongly) which chapter the item I want is under. If the fully detailed TOC looks too intimidating, it might work to instead fully display only two levels and for everything further down just list all the titles on a single line. The additional levels of items don't even need to be clickable (although they might be); all that's important to me is to know they exist and know what to click to reach them without backtracking.


And second, what about enhancing the "search" functionality to specifically find items in the handbook?  Maybe each result could just be distinctively marked (different color? different font?) if it's in the handbook. OR maybe all handbook results could be pulled out and displayed either in a completely separate section or at the top before any other results. OR maybe it could be a checkbox next to the search button.


(I've no idea how easy or hard it would be to implement any of these things, and I apologize in advance if these ideas are "obviously ridiculous" to those more in the know:-)


 

Dillbert's picture
Dillbert

the Contents does expand - or am I missing your point?


 


Chuck's picture
Chuck

Quote:
... the Contents does expand ...

The screenshot shows just the kind of thing I was asking about. It would have helped me a great deal  ...if I'd only been able to access it. So in light of this new information I now have a different query:


Why doesn't the TOC expand for me? (And how many other users have the same problem: specifically they have no idea it's supposed to look like this?)


Do I need to enter some particular sequence of clicks and/or keys? Do I need to use my mouse to place my cursor in a particular place? Do I need to enter the handbook some particular way (other than just clicking on "HandbooK' in the top banner)? Is the TOC implementation incompatible with my very old FireFox 1.5.0.1 browser, but I never get any sort of message about the incompatibility? Is the TOC implementation freaked out by my use of the NoScript extension (to improve security just a little) ...even though I've explicitly allowed all scripts that originate from *thefreshloaf.com?


thanks!

Chuck's picture
Chuck

Some data points from my computers:



  • IE 6 w/ WebWasher 3.3 local proxy - two "Runtime Error" messages displaying home page, and same two messages again displaying Handbook TOC, nothing changes appearance on mouseover any part of the Handbook TOC

  • IE6 w/ direct LAN connection -ActiveX message displaying home page, and same message again displaying Handbook TOC (replied "no" both times) - nothing changes appearance on mouseover any part of the Handbook TOC

  • Firefox 1.5.0.1 w/ NoScript extension 1.9.9.45 w/ *thefreshloaf.com allowed and w/ WebWasher 3.3 local proxy - nothing changes appearance on mouseover any part of the Handbook TOC

  • FireFox 1.5.0.1 w/NoScript extension 1.9.9.45 w/ *thefreshloaf.com allowed and w/ direct LAN connection - nothing changes appearance on mouseover any part of the Handbook TOC, "JavaScript" console shows no JavaScript errors, but about a dozen CSS parsing errors

  • Firefox 2.0.0.20 (under Linux) w/ direct LAN connection - nothing changes appearance on mouseover any part of the Handbook TOC, Error console shows no JavaScript errors, but about a dozen CSS parsing errors

  • Mozilla 1.6 w/ WebWasher 3.3 local proxy - nothing changes appearance on mouseover any part of the Handbook TOC

  • Mozilla 1.6 w/ direct LAN connection - nothing changes appearance on mouseover any part of the Handbook TOC

  • Opera 7.54u2 w/ WebWasher 3.3 local proxy - nothing changes appearance on mouseover any part of the Handbook TOC

  • Opera 7.54u2 w/ direct LAN connection - nothing changes appearance on mouseover any part of the Handbook TOC




Notes:

Some of these tests may be inaccurate because of browser caching. I hard flushed (CTRL-refresh) the browser cache between every test ...but I suspect some of the browsers missed some subsidiary things.


The advice "just upgrade your browser" is not relevant to me. Because of old OS levels on my systems (some of which have been working for a dozen years), newer browsers will either not even try to install on my systems or are incompatible with my system-wide subroutine libraries. I would just write this current issue off as an annoyance I'm forcing myself to live with  ...except it works on 97% of other websites (including my own: http://www.ckollars.org) despite the old browsers (and note I did not try to present results of tests with my old Netscape Navigator 4.7 browser:-).



My gut sense is the problem has something to do with CSS levels.

sheffield's picture
sheffield (not verified)

It expands for me but not as far down as is shown in your post.

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

but it will give you a couple of points of reference.  I'm able to get the multi-level TOC to display.  I use an iMac with the Mac OS 10.somethingorother.  The TOC opens up with both Safari and Chrome browsers.  And my ADSL connection is freakishly slow and more than a little bit flaky.


Like I said, no solution.  When you get a chance, try it from another computer that is running a different browser.  Maybe an updated browser will help, maybe not.


Good luck.


Paul

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Worked using IE, but not firefox.


allan


 


EDIT, Call me a liar. Just tried it again with firefox and it worked.

Dillbert's picture
Dillbert

nadda clue, meself - but just for clarification, nothing "changes" when I mouse over the chapter / subchapter headings (ie no highlihgt-on-mouse-over) but if I click on the text [block] - it expands.


checked the page against w3.org but nothing serious popped out.

Chuck's picture
Chuck

I'm glad to hear it's not just me that runs into the "Table of Contents doesn't expand" issue; I'd begun to think perhaps I was hallucinating.


Please now, to help characterize this issue better and to help track it down, please tell us exactly which browser and version you're using (use the browser's Help->About). Also tell (me at least:-) exactly what the "text [block]" says so I'm sure I'm clicking in the right place.


(Also, how did you "know" to click on the text [block]? Did some instruction somewhere suggest that you do that? Or perhaps is this the same typical operation used elsewhere on TFL? Or perhaps did some special font or coloring give you a hint?)

TzuLady's picture
TzuLady

Using Firefox 3.6 on OS X 10.5 there is no expansion of the TOC.  Maybe a dedicated TOC page would be more beneficial than having to hunt and peck through a drill-down =)  Love the handbook though . . . great idea and info!!

paulm's picture
paulm

I use Firefox 4.0.1 on Windows XP-Pro Service Pack 3 and the TOC menu sections expand but only 1 section per level will open at a time.  In other words, if you click to expand section III Recipes, and then click to expand Section II Bread Basics, Section III will collapse.  If you have section II expanded, you can expand Ingredients or Process & Techniques but not both simultaneously.  I haven't used IE or Chrome on TFL but based on experiences on other web sites, I would expect them to act in a similar fashion.

I chopped off the list of recipes for display purposes only.  They all display in a scrollable window.

 Paul