The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Traditional Barley Malt Syrup

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CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Traditional Barley Malt Syrup

Well, I finally got my hands on some traditional, organic barley malt syrup. On the directions it says to: use one for one in recipes to replace honey.  Is there anything else to bear in mind when using this?  Since it is never discussed on this forum I thought it might be useful to people if I played guinea pig on this.  I am told that it results is a special crust and flavor but have no idea as what will really happen. Country Boy

BROTKUNST's picture
BROTKUNST

Just as I posted today: Don't substitute the Malt Syrup for sugar (unless you'd reduce the percentage of yeast and increase the flour in the correct proportion). Sugar binds the water and retards the yeast - Malt Syrup does not, as I found out with an super-hyperactive loaf .... I replaced 1.5 oz of brown sugar (11%) with 1.5 oz of Malt Syrup.

BROTKUNST

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

 but I mentioned "On the directions it says to: use one for one in recipes to replace honey." I believe that would be different? Yes? This will be my baptism by fire on this.... thanks,

countryboy

BROTKUNST's picture
BROTKUNST

Yes, you can replace the Honey with Malt Syrup ... I am saying that because I read the in formulas in in the past and I did that without noticable negative effect.

BROTKUNST

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

 thanks,

countryboy

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

For what it is worth I looked through the bread bible very quickly and found that there were 3-4 recipes where sugar, barley malt, and honey are all used interchangeably for sweetness in the bread recipes.  No mention is made as to changing ingredient portions of yeast, etc. elsewhere.  I guess everyone has their own way of viewing malt. thanks,

countryboy

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

in my particular case for regular white bread are as follows:

  • No big push to the yeast or in the rising of the loaf
  • No big change in color 
  • No big change in taste
  • No big change in the Crust.

My main reason for trying malt was that it was listed in the ingredients in the commercial german sourdough rye that is my favorite.  It has also been touted in different places as helping with Crust.  It did not in my case.

If anyone knows of a correlation between malt and crust and how to make it work, I would be happy to learn.

Yes, I know about the pans of water and spraying the oven for crust, but I choose to stay away from that option.

thanks,

countryboy

BROTKUNST's picture
BROTKUNST

I think you are refering to 'diastatic (barley) malt powder', not (barley) malt syrup which is non-diastatic - at least my brand is.

The diastatic powder has indeed an effect on the crust - could even be negative if you go overboard with it (crust could get tough and chewy). Most flours contain small amounts af diastatic malted barley, so be conservative when you add it. One source for the diastatic malt powder is the KA, but your local Health Food store may also carry it. It's harder to find then the syrup though.

BROTKUNST

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Yes I have tried my health food store and they are not able to carry it. I guess I will have to try KA then. 

Yes, the diastatic malt powder is referred to often.  I did not try it since I read elsewhere that when the malt is broken down to the powder form that it loses some of its essential ingredients for being effective in bread baking- it did not say which and why.  So long story short if I want the crust effect of it I gotta go with it in powder form. It is all in the details........

 thanks,

countryboy

nowhereman's picture
nowhereman

 is this the same as 'traditional barley malt syrup'?  I've been using this and it makes for nice colour, slightly sweeter, bloomier bread...doesnt change it that much just subtle... Taste great cross between honey and syrup, I've been using 1 heavy teaspoon mixed into 600ml water, then in goes yeast.


V

nick's picture
nick

I'm always interested in finding uses for other ingredients that go into beer, as a member of a few beer clubs sharing these recipes is always appreciated by everyone, cant wait to try it out

swtgran's picture
swtgran

I read someplace that you could make your own diastatic malt powder by sprouting wheat, drying it, and grinding it to a powder... or am mistaken about this recipe?

Kitchen Barbarian's picture
Kitchen Barbarian

You are correct.  I've seen the instructions for how to do that, I'm sure you could find some info on it if you just google it.

metropical's picture
metropical

since we're on the subject.

I have used malted barley syrup from my local home brew supply for years as a 1:1 substitute for sugar with no problems.  YMMD.

 

Has anyone tried using malted barley extract powder to replace the sugar?

give me liberty and a 5lb bag of flour

metropical's picture
metropical

This is from an email repsonse that I received from Muntons.  They are one of the largest makers of malt extract and malt syrup for beer brewing.

 

"Thank you for your enquiry regarding the use of dried malt extracts in baking. These are usually used as a straight replacement for sugar in bread. If you are replacing malt extract with dried malt extract, you will be able to use 20% less of the dried product, and add water to make up the balance of the recipe. This is to take account of the higher solids content in dried malt extract.

 

As you currently use malt extracts, you will be aware that malt extracts and dried malt extracts will give more crust colour than sugar alone, so you will need to bear this in mind when formulating a recipe and determining your baking conditions."

 

 

give me liberty and a 5lb bag of flour

Rosalie's picture
Rosalie

I have come across several interesting-looking recipes that call for malt extract.  I have barley malt syrup.  I don't recall seeing malt extract in the store, but I haven't looked for it either.

One recipe, for example, calls for 4 tablespoons malt extract.  Other sweeteners include 6 tablespoons brown sugar and 1 tablespoon molasses.  Also 1 1/2 cups dates and raisins.  Can I somehow substitute the malt syrup for the extract?  The syrup is "organic sprouted barley" from Eden Organics, but it doesn't say whether it is diastatic.

Rosalie

apprentice's picture
apprentice

Malt extract is available in a syrup or a powdered form. They're both "extracts" of barley. Often (but not always) the term "extract" is used for the powdered form. The word "syrup," naturally enough, is used if the extract is in that form. All barley malt is produced by "malting" or, in plain English, sprouting the grain under controlled conditions. It's then dried and a) dissolved in water and concentrated into a syrup or b) ground into a fine powder.

Diastatic and non-diastatic versions of malt extract are manufactured. Diastatic versions contain active enzymes, including amylase, that affect the texture of baked goods containing flour. Your flour probably already has some blended in. Basically you want to steer clear of diastatic barley malt unless a recipe specifically calls for it. If the recipe just says barley malt, it's a safe bet you're being asked to use non-diastatic.

Non-diastatic barley malt affects only the taste and colour of your bread. The active enzymes have been eliminated through the use of heat, but the extract still contains the distinct flavour and the maltose that is characteristic of malt. (Any cereal grain can be malted, but barley and wheat are most commonly used.)

Bottom line, the syrup you have is non-diastatic. I know because that's the one I bought, and I verified it with my supplier. If your recipe says extract but doesn't specify whether powder or syrup, it's likely calling for the powdered form. You can use the syrup instead. Check the advice metropical who posted last in this thread got from Muntons, a malt supplier, about substituting one for the other. Or just go ahead and use the same amount and see how you like the results. You can always use less next time.

Hope this is helpful.

Carol

p.s. One of the other terms for the powdered form is "barley malt crystals." That's the one that stumped me recently. Non-diastatic. I checked with my supplier. Great in milkshakes too, the package says.

metropical's picture
metropical

I just made a loaf with really old malt extract powder/sugar.

No difference that I can tell.  My loaf uses 2.5 tbsp of malt syrup usually, instead I use 2.5 tbsp malt extract.

give me liberty and a 5lb bag of flour

Bixmeister's picture
Bixmeister

Go to a homebrew supply store rather than a health food store for diastatic malt. 


Whether or not malt is diastatic is more important to a home-brew store.  Non-diastatic malt is of little use in brewing.  The mashing process requires plentiful and active enzymes.  I'm not sure that is the case with health food stores.  Generally malt will be cheaper in home-brew stores partly because they buy, stock and sell in larger quantities and generally work through maltsters  or their wholesale distributers.  I often go to a local health store, but would probably not buy malt products there.


 


 Another point is oz. for oz. barley has more enzymatic power.  When making wheat based beers, some barley might be added to increase enzymatic action-that is diastatic power.


Bix

Luv2share's picture
Luv2share

I tried substituting barley malt syrup for honet in a bread with white and whole wheat flour.  With long working and after resting the dough remained much more sticky than with the honey.  Anyone else notice that?  anyone know why?

breadmomma's picture
breadmomma

Hi,


I was hoping that someone could tell me if I can replace Honey for Barley Malt Syrup in a recipe for bagels. It calls for 1tbs in the dough mix and then 2tbs in the water they are boiled in. Can I use honey for this? Thanks for any help.


Breadmomma :)

CanuckJim's picture
CanuckJim

I use malt syrup as a gelatinizing agent when boiling NY style bagels.  It turns the baked bagels a slightly reddish tinge that I like.  However, in Montreal egg bagels are preferred, which are softer and sweeter.  The gelatinizing agent in the water there is commonly honey, which gives the finished breads a golden tinge.  There, honey is often added to the dough as well.


With the syrup, I want to water to be about the color of tea.  I also add about 1-2 tsp malt powder to the flour when making thirteen 4oz bagels; seems to help the depth of flavor.  The powder in small amounts also gives a boost to otherwise rather blah batter breads and muffins.  Just don't use a lot.


CJ

breadmomma's picture
breadmomma

AH!! Great info, Thank you CanuckJim. This is my 1st attempt at Bagels, so I imagine I have lots to learn. I am going to have to try both ways and sounds like I should invest in some malt powder! I've been making several different kinds of artsian breads for a few years now and it sounds like this malt powder would be a wonderful addition to my baking pantry :) Thanks again...:)

CanuckJim's picture
CanuckJim

You're certainly welcome.  One or two things, though.  The syrup does just fine in the pantry, but the powder does not.  Put it in an airtight container and keep it in the freezer.  You don't use much, and most packages of it will last a long time if properly stored.  Don't forget a pinch in pancakes or waffles.


CJ

cooky115's picture
cooky115

I am in a bind and i need a small amount of malt syrup for a kaiser roll formula. i dont have any, and the closest thing i could find was ovaltine powder...... it has malted barley in and malted extract, which is listed as  the second ingredient behind sugar. Can i make a syrup from this to use in my kaiser rolls? I am probably going to try and cook it down with a little water and see what happens but any assistance would be greatly appreciated. 

Best Regards,

Cooky

 

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

The first time I made kaiser rolls(Peter Reinhart's BBA), I did not have the small amount of malt powder or malt syrup the recipe specified. I used an equal amount of molasses. Others use brown sugar, golden syrup, dark corn syrup, etc. The amount called for is so small, the taste was very subtle, as to be almost unnoticeable(ymmv). They came out just fine, and I really didn't notice a taste difference when I got around to making them with genuine malt syrup.

Malted milk powders, like ovaltine, are not quite the same, as most include many other ingredients, which may affect the desired "hard roll" texture. Although again, the amount called for may be too small to make a difference. Of course, if the malted milk powder is chocolate flavored, don't use it. Good luck.

My first Kaisers, made with molasses: