The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Getting into the oven without losing all my gas....so to speak.

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F15E_WSO's picture
F15E_WSO

Getting into the oven without losing all my gas....so to speak.

The good, the bad and the ugly.


 


Ok, so I decide to really "apply" myself to this weekends effort.  Many were kind to recommend KA All Purpose (flavor and crumb very nice so that was a winner) and I blend two of Reinhart's recipes using a pate fermente.  I blend the french baguette and the Basic Sour Dough as I am trying to get more towards a baguette off of a starter I have been using for 3+ years now.  As I changed the flour and made myself a couche yesterday and two banetons I knew the number of variables were getting a bit out of hand for a proper test.  I also decided to go a bit wetter with what I learned from other posts and videos here.


I got great 2nd rise from the breads in the banetons, the same with the couche baguettes; everything looked wonderful when it was time to warm the oven.  I got the first baguette out of the couche and onto the peel with no problem, it held its form well enough for a proper slicing from the lame.  The others not so much.  Getting the breads out of the rest of the couche, and the baskets cost too much de-gassing.  The breads were VERY deflated and difficult to cut and I did not get the proper bloom in the oven, they tried but sort of petered out in their efforts.  


My plan next time is maybe not so wet (though many of the videos here seem like pretty wet dough) and hope to develop a "technique" to get out of the couche and onto the stone/parchment/peel whatever it takes to not get too degassed.


 


IF anyone expereinced something similar regarding the handleing of the bread please provide a link or thoughts.  


BTW, all is not lost, the bread will go fine with a nice Beef Rogan Josh, Lentils and yogurt mint Indian dish.


 


THanks in advance


Hank

LindyD's picture
LindyD

Welcome to TFL, Hank.


Using a mix of half bread or AP flour and half rice flour in your brotform/banneton will avoid the sticking issue.  


As to the baguettes, I've found that placing them on a stip of parchment which I've placed in the couche makes transfer to the peel very easy: the parchment containing the baguette just slides right on the stone without disturbing the dough, no matter what the hydration.

F15E_WSO's picture
F15E_WSO

Lindy,


Very simple and VERY BRILLIANT idea!  EASY PEEZY.  I did not have very much sticking from the couche or baskets really, just soft and prone to losing the form or shape.  The parchment in the bottom of the couche solves part of my problem.  THanks for the great idea.


 


Hank

LindyD's picture
LindyD

As they say, a deflated baguette is the mother of invention.  ;-)

F15E_WSO's picture
F15E_WSO

Doh!  I think there is a pill for that now!  LOL

fancypantalons's picture
fancypantalons

I raise and bake all my free-form breads on parchment.  It's just *so* much simpler.  That includes baguettes and round loaves, as well as pizzas (using parchment for pizza was a revelation for me... suddenly pizza went from a frightening chore to an absolute breeze).

F15E_WSO's picture
F15E_WSO

Do you trim the parchment relatively thin on the bottom or does it curl/follow the curves of the couche up the sides of the bread?  If so does it stick a bit and then release in the heat or am I over-thinking this?  


How wide do you make the parchment strip?  Bottom only or up the sides too?

LindyD's picture
LindyD

I cut thin strips a bit wider than the baguette, just to avoid wasting parchment.  The couche is still floured so side sticking isn't an issue.  


If you want to go wider, that's fine too.  The bread will release after it's baked.


The only bread I make that doesn't go on parchment is the bread that goes into a brotform.  Even breads that are retarded overnight sit on parchment. 


I'll second Fancypantalons' use of parchment for pizza. Saves my stone from getting covered with cheese that melts off the pizza.

Ricko's picture
Ricko

I have used the AP/rice flour mixture on my bannetons with good results. It seems the more I use them, the more seasoned they become requiring less of an application of flour.


I do not use any parchment to line the bannetons/couche. I do cut my parchment sheets into strips 8 inches wide by 20 inches long though. When the dough has risen to the point of going into the oven, I place a strip of parchment on top of the dough, I place the peel lightly on top of the parchment, and in a quick motion flip the two so the peel is on the bottom.  Now to remove the banneton, I use my thumbs to apply an upward pressure under the lip of the banneton and within 20 seconds or so you should feel the banneton giving way. If you force it to quickly, you'll encounter the deflation of the dough that allows the dough to spread out wide rather than keeping its height.


You will encounter some flattening of the dough the longer you let it sit on the peel without the support of the banneton and from the downward pressure of the lame. So the sooner you get the banneton off and the dough into the oven the better your results should be. I'd also like to mention that when I use all bread flour, there isn't much of an oven spring allowing the dough to recover any lost height. Even less spring when using AP flour. In order to avoid the wide flattened loaf, I've gone to using 40 percent hi-gluten flour (All Trump) and bread flour (KAF). This combination gives great oven spring and the ability to recover any deflation due to rough handling. No more loaves 6 inches wide and 2 inches high! This was for the Reinhart sourdough bread. This is all in conjunction with good oven steam and a thick stone. Hope this helps.

F15E_WSO's picture
F15E_WSO

Ricko,


thanks for taking the time to type out your tips and exchange some hard earned experience.  I understand the 6 inches wide and 2 inches high loaf, had some tonight.  


I put the parchment against the baneton bread and held it with my hand then transferred gently to the peel.  I was careful but clearly a direct transfer to the peel would be better.  


I always have trouble with the cutting, I have the standard green lame from KA; gifted to me.  I have razor blades fresh from the box, exacto, kitchen knives etc etc....I have moistened the dough with a spray mist to soften the dough....all with varying degrees of effect.  


I will look for the flours you suggested and keep experimenting. 


 


THanks again


Hank


 


 

Ricko's picture
Ricko

Hank,


When making your slices with the lame, you must be quick and deliberate. If you hesitate or are slow in slicing, your blade will hang-up in the dough. I always tilt my blade so that the sharp corner is the only point of contact. I think holding the blade horizontal and trying to use the whole length of the blade causes it to drag and hang-up. It can be done though, after you develop your quickness and determined cut with the corner of the blade.

F15E_WSO's picture
F15E_WSO

Dang,


still no love with the blade, the rise and manipulating onto the peel off the couche was cake with the parchment beneath the loaves. they were on the peel in all their splendor.  Then Dr. Frankenstein approached with blade poised in the air for the cut.....


Blade hangs, pulls, etc etc....there is no sort of cutting or splitting it just gouges.  Breads deflated some, no surprise and then sprang in the oven but the splits were not pretty or deep/wide enough.


Next time I will go a bit wetter

logdrum's picture
logdrum

I have better luck if I underproof the loaves just a bit.


 


-d

F15E_WSO's picture
F15E_WSO

-d


I think you are correct, I think I was late to get to them, was hot today here and they probably raced to done.


 


I have some photos, will post later for a "guess" from the panel.

F15E_WSO's picture
F15E_WSO

ere are some pics from today, I think with the warmer weather I was late to the oven and the loaves were over proofed and had no rebound or less oven spring?  


Handling was very ginger, looked great until I put a blade to them and then they sagged and were very difficult to cut



 



 



 


fancypantalons's picture
fancypantalons

Subject says it all, really.