The Fresh Loaf

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Horst Bandel's Black Pumpernickel from Bread

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ehanner's picture
ehanner

Horst Bandel's Black Pumpernickel from Bread

This is a bread that I have been wanting to try for some time. Jeff Hamelman did a great job of presenting it in his book, "Bread" and the story that goes with how he learned about it is heart felt. This style of bread is a long way from just about everything you might be familiar with. It isn't airy and light. It doesn't have a beautiful crust in the traditional way we usually think of a nice golden color, expanding at a well placed slash. What it is, is a compact, almost waxy mass of slowly baked rye and wheat dough in a high hydration formula. It is baked in a covered Pullman Pan with straight sides for 12 hours at slowly reducing temperatures.


Before I attempted this bread, I looked at txfarmers thread from last year where she posted about her attempt and learned a lot about the process. If you are interested in baking this, I suggest reading this thread first.


I had the opposite results as far as rising during baking as txfarmer. I apparently had to much dough in the pan and although it had risen to within 1/2 inch of the lid during proof, I checked after 1 hour of baking to find the lid had been blown off the pan. Hmmm. I got my trusty serrated bread knife and sawed the dough level with the pan top, replaced the lid and pretended like that was part of the plan.


To back up a little, Hamelman says the bake time should be around 12 hours but that includes some time in the oven after it is turned off. I didn't get a good feel for how much time at what temperature so I improvised a little.  I preheated my fire brick in a pan I use for steam, the stone I sometimes use and a 1/2 box of unglazed tiles in a 350F oven. I figured the additional thermal mass would give me a slowly cooling environment similar to a WFO or a big commercial oven like Jeff has to play with.


There are a lot of variables on the path to a great Horst Bandel. It took me a while to get the required rye components together and the Pullman Pan on the same day. I used freshly ground whole rye, rye meal and rye chops from flourgirl51 and her wonderful Organic grain/flour mill. Surprisingly the various forms of rye are hard to come by here in the upper Midwest of the US. When I discovered I could get everything from one known source, I got myself into gear and started the ball rolling to learn this bread.


Here are a few images I took as an after thought after the bake. I'm very happy with the results of my first attempt but there is room for improvement. This isn't rocket science but, it is chemistry. I went pretty much by the book and got a good result. I plan on adjusting the volume of dough, baking temp profile and cooking of the whole berries on the next attempt.


If you try this bread, you must be prepared for a flavor experience that is so full I would call it "adult". If you appreciate fine smoked meats and fish, capers or black caviar on cream cheese or dry butter, then this is for you. It is that good.


Thank you Jeffrey. And thank you Mini and txfarmer for your assistance.


Eric




 

Comments

Doc Tracy's picture
Doc Tracy

I've been looking at that formula and a little afraid to try it. I might wait until I get back into the house for this experience.


If you can find more than 1lb of rye flour in one of three grocery stores in your area you have more choice of rye options than me. Flourgirl51's rye flour is outstanding and the only flour that I will use for rye. Her other flours are outstanding too!


Wish I had more true rye lovers in the family besides just myself. My husband like's Eric's Fav but that's about as much rye as he will tolerate.


Nice looking loaf!

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

The crumb shot is gorgous!


Thanks for including my thread , here's my later blog about how I finally managed to do it right: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14315/horst-bandel%E2%80%99s-black-pumpernickel-finally

davidg618's picture
davidg618

I've been in denial that I want to bake this bread. After making Vollkornbrot, with good, first-time success, I went back to tried and true every-day sourdoughs. Mysteriously, the book kept opening to the Horst Bandel page. I'd turn the page quickly.


However, looking at your pictures, and reading your experiences baking this bread says, "Do it!". I particularly liked your creative use of your bread knife;-)


I will.


David G

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Tracy: I held back until I had the chops, meal and dark rye. You can see all the rye berries that absorbed the water in the crumb. They expand so much that the berries end up being a significant component to the mix. I'm sure they become the reason it stays moist and tender. I think your husband would appreciate this as an appetizer with his favorite topping. Less sandwich bread and more a tasty base for extraordinary appetizer.


txfarmer: Thanks for your kind words and inspiration. I thought I remembered seeing your later post, I even commented on it lol. I'm pretty happy with the results. Reading your thread gave me the needed respect for the process. I actually thought I would have to much dough and had an extra smaller pan ready for the extra. When the time came to load the pan I wimped out and left the entire batch in the one pan. You know how slack and goopy it is. What a surprise to see the lid blown off the top.


David: I had the same mysterious page turning going on. After studying the chapter, I had a reverence for the bread, the author and Father Bandel. It's like the blacksmith dreaming he can craft a fine watch. I wanted to have proper respect for the bread first. Hamelman isn't prone to making wild comments about flavor and you can tell he had respect for the process in his side comments.


You are a good baker David, give it a try. But, get all the components in hand first. I think it's important to honor the author on this one, at least the first time.


Eric

Doc Tracy's picture
Doc Tracy

I just sent a message to flourgirl51. I've been working on developing my husband's taste buds for rye. He didn't think he liked rye and now he does. He also didn't think he liked sourdough with anything sweet. Yesterday we had rye sour pancakes and he loved them!


This bread looks so good I can practically taste the picture. My husband really liked the multigrain rye I baked last week. However, part of what he really likes is the soft texture. Considering he's gone from eating wonderbread three years ago when I first met him to almost gagging when he bought a loaf of high fiber bread today (I've been lax and he ate my two loaves of multigrain rye from last week) he's doing really well.


Little by little, I hope to get him eating those dense, flavorful volkonbrot breads. He now loves whole wheat, partial ryes and multigrains. When I started adding onion and fennel to my rye breads he really became a rye lover.  Now, I just  have to bump him up to higher rye percents and get him used to the denser, moist breads.


Baking Mini's Magic Rye tomorrow, along with three loaves of the multigrain. When I get the chops and meal I'll give this bread a try.


By the way, your starter now has offspring in Gilbert, AZ now. I gave WW and rye starter to Kathy in Gilbert. She was having trouble getting hers going.


 

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Glad to hear the starter is working out for you. Spreading the culture is a nice thing, especially when it gets passed around later.


The Horst Bandel is unique bread. I think most people tend to over bake it at higher temps. instead of using a long low  process. I made a post where I compared it to a British Pudding which is steamed. Before you do your first one, I suggest you search out a couple videos for making Christmas pudding. You don't need to use only steam but the process and end product are exactly like what you want the Horst to look like. It should be cut thin. The flavors are deep and delicious. Again heat in the range of 225-250 is the key here. I'm anxious to see your results. I know your hubby will like this. It's just too good not to.


Eric

DonD's picture
DonD

I have been eyeing that recipe for a long time but have not had the chance to gather all the ingredients. I am sure that tastewise it is on a different level than anything you can buy. I bet it would be great with some smoke salmon, sour cream and capers. Are the light coarse particles the rye chops?


Don

ericb's picture
ericb

Good work, Eric! It seems like many of us have been eying this recipe for a while now, and I am no exception. I don't really even understand exactly why I am attracted to baking pumpernickel, volkernbrot, or other breads heavy with rye. I don't even particularly *like* rye bread. Something about them carries a mystique that always lures me back, though. 


Anyway, thanks for posting your results, and for posting the link to flourgirl51's website. If I were her, I would put together a Host Bandel package with everything one needs to bake this bread. I have a feeling some of us would buy it.


Eric B.

Elagins's picture
Elagins

eric, what a magnificent job! you know that i've been playing with rye for years now and i'm envious of your results ... i've refrained from attempting this bread because i'm still grappling with the 100% rye monster. once we've learned to love each other (the monster and i), breads like this will be next.


this one is a testament to your ever-expanding skills as a baker!


stan

ehanner's picture
ehanner

It IS interesting that so many of us have been looking at this recipe. I had mentioned to Rhonda about a kit for this recipe. Maybe she will put it together if we grovel a little. It isn't much in poundage but if you can't find the products, all of them, it isn't the same. The meal and chops and berries are all hard or impossible to find in a big German town like Milwaukee. Never mind in Organic form.


Stan: Thanks for your kind words. Honestly, I got lucky here. Let's see if I can duplicate the results. I'm still a rye rookie.


EricB: Glad you liked it. Hope you try it.


Don: Yep, I think those are the chops. The way the recipe goes together, the meal is last in the pool. I wondered if it should have been soaked but the recipe is clear on this. The capers do sound good don't they? I don't have any smoked salmon at the moment, sorry:>(



flourgirl51's picture
flourgirl51

Okay Eric,


I can do kits and possibly the pullman pans as well.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I'd love to have a slice or two right now!


David

ehanner's picture
ehanner

After the photo shoot, I exerted executive privilege and ate the props!


Eric

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

An Executive Chef?

David

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Executive Dad. My daughter grabbed the loaf and supplies to make more.


Eric

holds99's picture
holds99

WOW! Congratulatons. You did a terrific job. 


Howard     

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Thanks Howard.


How have you been?


Eric

holds99's picture
holds99

I've been busy with a time consuming (non baking) project that I've been working on for way too many months.  It should "wrap" in another month or so and I will, hopefully, have some time to devote to my favorite indulgence---baking. 


I've been periodically keeping track of all the terrific baking and posting going on on TFL.  Love this site, and the bakers who give so much to keep it the greatest baking site on the web.


Best to you and yours---and everyone on TFL,


Howard

ehanner's picture
ehanner

I know we will all look forward to seeing you back on the horse.


Eric

LindyD's picture
LindyD

When I read your blog this morning, I smiled when I came to your description of how you handled the surplus that had popped your pan top!


The rye is gorgeous, Eric.  It looks very moist and I imagine that like all ryes, it will taste better and better...presuming there's any left to taste over the next few days.


Like others here, I've looked at the recipe but my best excuse for not attempting it is that I don't own any type of bread pan, let alone a Pullman.  May have to rethink that.


What an amazingly wonderful bake you did!


Did you use rye for the altus soaker? 

ehanner's picture
ehanner

I appreciate your kind words.


I did use altus from the previous bake when I used Mini's formula for a similar bake. You know I put off spending for a Pullman Pan for a long time. It is a little spendy. There are a number of breads that can be best done with a covered pan. I'm glad I bought this one and am now considering buying another so I can bake 2 at a time. I know lots of my family will like this delicious bread. Now that I know I can make it with good results, I suspect it will go in the rotation here.  I'm going to send my Father a 1/2 loaf which will be plenty for him.


I think you could use an inexpensive metal loaf pan with a double layer of foil tightly sealed over the top.


Eric

Faith in Virginia's picture
Faith in Virginia

I have this book... You have inspired me to give this a go.


Thank you all so much.


Faith

louie brown's picture
louie brown

That's gorgeous. I've always wanted to try this bread, which in its commercial form has been a staple in our house forever. It would be great to have one's own. Thanks for publishing your work and for the other references. This project remains high on my to do list.

ryeaskrye's picture
ryeaskrye

Magnificent for a first attempt...or any attempt really.


I'm a little jealous. I have made two attempts at this myself and while neither was a failure in any sense, I would not say they were great successes either.


As txfarmer experienced, I have had difficulty finding the correct amount of dough. What size is your pullman and did you adjust Hamelman's recipe at all? How long did yoiu end up baking it for?


As SteveB mentioned in one of dmsnyder's posts, there should be a way to share across the internet. I drooling just looking at your pics.


 

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Thanks for your comments. I don't think it's that big of a deal to get it to rise perfectly to the limits of the pan. There are so many variables that could effect the rise and spring.


My pan is 9X4X4 on the inside. I went strictly by the recipe as written by Jeff Hamelman. If I were doing it again right this minute, I would remove about 6 Oz from the dough as I was shaping and loading. This would only apply to my exact pan. As I mentioned, the dough was about 1 inch below the top when I first put it in and evened it out with a plastic scraper. It rose to within 1/4 inch in the time I proofed it and put it in the oven.