The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

kneading with kitchen aid

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Susanmarie's picture
Susanmarie

kneading with kitchen aid

Hi, everyone.  I want to know how long you knead with a kitchenaid.  I have one with a spiral dough hook, and it says knead on 2 for 2 minutes after the dough clears the bowl.  At about 1.5 minutes, my 65% hydration lean white dough starts sticking to the sides again and if I let it go for the full 2 minutes it totally sticks to the sides of the bowl all the way around and is no longer a ball.  Is this a problem, or is it normal and simply because the dough is a higher hydration?  When I take a piece of the dough it is stretchy, and I think it passed the windowpane test if I did it correctly.  The dough rises well and bakes up fine.  I am concerned that I am overworking the dough, but 2 minutes seems so short.  I am confused.   

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Sylvia, curious if you are using a lot of steam in your baking that may have contributed to the electrical problems in your oven?  Anyone else have problems when using steam?

SDbaker

audra36274's picture
audra36274

Years ago I got a professional Kitchen Aid stand mixer. I couldn't get things to work out just right at first. Then I was reading GREAT CAKES by Carole Walter and on page 33 of the book she writes:   Cakes and so forth made with the Kitchen Aid mixer have greater volume because the machine draws air into the batter. As a result, reduce the mixing time on all recipes in this book by 20 to 25 % when using this machine, to avoid overmixing.   In fact she goes on to say that in the cook book test kitchen they didn't use a kitchen aid because of this. So I had a $400.00 mixer and had to start all over on learning how to use one. Talk about being all dressed and nowhere to go! But I did get used to it. I don't overmix...most of the time, and for Christmas my husband thought he would get me something special, and get me one of those regular colored models Kitchen Aid has to add some BLING to my kitchen I guess. Ihate it (don't tell him). It doesn't weigh enough, and the motor is too small. On a big job it jumps all over the place! ANYWAY..... try again, and don't mix as much and see what happens.

                                                                        Audra

Val's picture
Val

I made a batch of sour dough last night. I mixed the ingredients using the spiral dough hook on setting one for about 1 to 2 minutes to get a shaggy dough prior to autolyse. I let it sit for about 20 minutes and then added the salt and kneaded at setting two for 8 minutes. The dough went through a sagging period just like your's, but then pulled together more. I added a tblsp of flour just to pull the dough off the side of the bowl about half way through kneading. At the end of 8 minutes I measured the temperature, trying to stay around 78 to 80 F. The dough was like "The Blob". I baked this morning after retarding overnight. The bread came out well.

PS - I used 16 oz starter, 4 oz whole wheat, 10 oz KA AP, and 10 oz KA Bread Flour.

verminiusrex's picture
verminiusrex

I think the dough is wet on the outside just because when you knead by hand you constantly add a bit of flour to keep it from sticking, in the mixer you aren't adding those extra bits of flour so the moisture is able to get to the outside.  Don't worry about it too much, just pull it onto a floured surface and add a dusting so you can handle the dough.  Its' much like when the dough comes out with a moist, sticky suface after it's first rise, you just have to dust it before shapig for nonstick with the hands. 

 Don't worry about overworking your dough.  If there is any difference between a 7 minute knead and a 15 minute knead in the kitchen aid mixer I haven't seen it.  You can get away with a shorter knead, but don't underknead or you don't develop enough gluten for a good rise.  

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

 

 V - what is the longest you've mixed with an mixer? 

I have a thread somewhere on here about this exact situation.  Worried about over mixing, and the temp of dough keeps rising.  Not a smooth surface.   The post about the surface being "shaggy" is a perfect description of the mottled surface I see.  The dough is tight but does relax after a bit.

 I'm trying to follow the BBA formulas to the letter, just to eliminate variables.  Peter Reinhart is pretty good about making foolproof recipes.

 as ever

SDbaker

Val's picture
Val

I've gone as long as 10 minutes with the spiral dough hook. The spiral hook doesn't raise the temp too much; I measured about 2 degrees F from beginning to end. You can use the dough temperature formula that King Arthur publishes to adjust your water temp to keep the dough down to 78 to 80. If your mixer adds a lot of energy and raises the dough temperature, just cool the water to end up where you want. At these mix times, the dough is still very relaxed.