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Mini's Favorite 100% Rye Ratio

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Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Mini's Favorite 100% Rye Ratio


I've been playing with rye loaf ratios (starter/water/flour) and I came up with one using any amount of rye starter that when refreshed is a paste (100% hydration) and as it ferments loostens to a thick batter.  I was looking for basic numbers (like 1/2/3) and I found them they're  1/ 3.5/ 4.16.   It makes Rye so much easier!  The starter should be generously refreshed 8-12 hours before and mixed into the dough just before peaking and in a 22°c room (72°F) the dough ferments 7-8 hours before baking.   Dough should not be folded or shaped 4 hours before going into the oven.


Basic Ratio> 1 part starter: 3.5 parts cold water: 4.16 parts rye flour    


4 tablespoons bread spice for 500g flour    Salt 1.8 to 2% of flour weight


Hydration of dough aprox 84%.  Handle dough with wet hands and a wet spatula.  Combine starter and water then the flour, stir well and let rest covered.  Add salt about one hour after mixing and any other ingredients.  If room is warmer add salt earlier.  Three hours into the ferment lightly fold with wet hands and shape into a smooth ball.  Place into a well floured brotform or oiled baking pan.  Cover and let rise.  Don't let it quite Double for it will if conditions are right.  Before placing in the oven, use a wet toothpick and dock the loaf all over to release any large bubbles.  Bake in covered dark dish in cold oven Convection 200°C or 390°F (oven can reach 220°C easy with the fan on.)  Remove cover after 20 to 25 minutes and rotate loaf.  Reduce heat by simply turning off convection and use top & bottom heat at 200°C.   Remove when dough center reaches 93°C or 200° F.


All kinds of combinations are possible including addition of soaked & drained seeds and or cooked berries or moist altus and whole or cracked walnuts or a little spoon of honey.


How it works:  I have 150g rye starter at 100% hydration.  I figure for water: 150 x 3.5 gives the water amount or 525g.  I figure the flour: 150 x 4.16 gives 624 g Rye flour.  For salt:  2% of 700g (624g + aprox. 75g in the starter) makes salt 14g or one level tablespoon of table salt.


This amount of dough took 1 1/2 hours to bake and included moist rye altus.  It was baked in two non-stick cast aluminum sauce pans (20cm diameter) one inverted over the other .  The rounder of the two on the bottom.  No steam other than what was trapped inside.  Top removed after 25 minutes.  It has a beautiful dark crust with a light shine.  Aroma is heavenly.



 

Comments

Doc Tracy's picture
Doc Tracy

Mini-if I'm reading this correctly-this is a 100% rye bread made with a rye starter? Or, is the flour that you add white or another flour and you use a rye starter with it?


I'd like to try it, just trying to make sure I understand it first.


Tracy

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

All the flour in the recipe is rye flour.  I used 960 in our Austrian/German flour system.  I hope you do try it.  I've been playing around with hydration and there seems to be a magical amount where the rye structure stretches.  The dough rises so nicely, slowly but lovely.  I need to make a crumb shot and I'm waiting for better light. 


When working with the dough, have the faucet just dribbling so you can get your hands wet as soon as they start to stick.  A little stickiness is good or the dough will separate into globs.  Then time to back off the water if that starts to happen.  You should be able to fold the dough gently in the air.  Folding is a little overstated, it's more like just tucking and sealing the tuck or two.  I just love to get my hands into it.  To loosen the dough from the bowl, sprinkle just a teaspoon of water around the edges between the dough and the bowl.  Then run a wet spatula down the sides and eventually the bottom.  A little water makes it all so slippery to flip out into your wet hand.  Wet the other hand (the one finished using the spatula) and then play a little.  It is such a mass of goo!  If it runs thru your fingers and you can't hold it, then it is too thin and needs more flour.  That's better done in a bowl with a sturdy spoon.  I tend to start out with a firmer dough as time will soften it, that and wet hands.


If you want to substitute some of the rye flour for wheat or spelt, mix the substitution  into the starter & water first for a few minutes before adding the rye to get the gluten going.  Salt plays a major roll in the timing.  If you go no salt, the dough will ferment faster and surely be ready for the oven under 5 hours.  I prefer not to rush it.  Salt free dough should then be retarded in the refrigerator after one hour of room temp.   I have not ventured yet in this direction but I had forgotten the salt... once.  Always a learning experience.  Now I set a timer. 


The altus I used was about 4 thick slices of whole Rye broken and bashed up in the blades of a food processor.  (Yes it was fun!)  Added a tablespoon of water to make them moister.  You can actually see darker crust bits in the crumb shot.


Mini

Doc Tracy's picture
Doc Tracy

I wonder if I can use a little deli rye for the altus? I'm not sure I've ever even tasted whole rye bread? Maybe those little tiny loaves they sell for appetizers in the deli? I've been wanting to try a 100%, getting back to my Finn roots, this looks like a good one to start with.


Even if nobody eats it but me, it's still fun to experiment with. What the heck. Dog classes start next week. If nothing else, my dog can eat 100% whole rye, she's on a non-wheat diet!


What spices do you use? Fennel, honey?

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

of roasted and crushed Fennel, Coriander, and Caraway.  I think Coriander makes up the bulk of the mixture.  If you use ground spices it would be better to use less as it is more compact.


I didn't add honey directly, there was a tiny bit in the altus loaf.  Any tasty old bread works as long as it's not questionable or moldy or has off tastes.  Once I baked a loaf that came out salt free... forgot the salt.  After a few Tuscan meals, it got crumbled and dried for altus.  I do prefer some rye in the altus but I wouldn't go out of my way to purchase bread just to crumble up into this loaf.  With this recipe, I have also removed about 100g of rye and replaced with bread flour then adding about a Tablespoon of water.  Works well!  The grain alone is naturally sweet for my tastes and I don't see any need to add sweetener.


Oven Temp.  I also just noticed I forgot to write I turned down the oven temp after removing the cover while baking by simply turning the dial from convection to upper&lower heat.  I will have to sneak that into the main recipe.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I have also much success using this ratio and switching the flours around.  Today is 150g sourdough, 525g water, 690g flour (200g Wheat Bread Flour +500g Rye)  12.5g Salt and 150g broken roasted walnuts.    From mixing up the starter/water/flour together (same routine as above) to placing into the oven took 7.5 hours.   I guess this is close to a 70% Rye loaf.   It sure is looking beautiful in the oven.  Rising nicely at 210°C  or 410°F   Steamed the first 10 minutes then vented the oven.  (I am now using a Korean Steam Mini-Oven for this loaf.)  Baked for an hour or until inside temp is  96°C or 205°F.  This is a larger 24cm pan and therefore a flatter loaf is the result.  Wish you could smell this, you will have to settle with crumb shots.  Bottoms up!



You can see why I never knew for the longest time that walnuts turned the dough purple...


Mini


nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Steaming really makes wonders!

la vecchia saggia's picture
la vecchia saggia

Would be tasty with cheese and not only... wonderful loaf Mini.... ;-)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I went to bake today, doubled the recipe.   I figured out the ratio first on paper, then I was looking at notes tacked on the cupboard door.  (The quick notes to save time.  I have the ratio and it has the grams for 120g starter 150g, 170g and so on....) Something is wrong with my math.  Then I looked at the ratio at the top... I had written the wrong numbers.  I kept wondering why I was adding more water when I used the cupboard notes...  (thought it was the bread flour in substitutes and that was constantly changing) when mixing in the salt and couldn't keep the salt amount constant.  I had written 4.6 flour instead of 4.16 flour.   Gee wizz!  At least I wrote it in the reports what I did even if it wasn't the right ratio.  The original ratio works best.


The error is in the recipe above.  I have 690g of flour instead of 624g.    And nobody noticed!   My cheat sheet in the cupboard is being revamped!   I'm looking down this Blog for more errors.   No worry.  Haven't found any more.


Mini

ejm's picture
ejm

I hate it when I do that! But it proves (no pun intended) that even with casual measurements, the dough still becomes bread.


-Elizabeth

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

"Salt free dough should then be retarded in the refrigerator after one hour of room temp."


My quote and I have to say, I now question retarding in the refrigerator may not work with 100% rye dough.  Although this was mentioned in context with substituted flours which may work.  Until I have investigated it more, I was attributing more wheat characteristics onto rye.  See threads with same dates way down the thread.  Rye doughs of 100% seem to have difficulty rising after retardation in a refrigerator.


Mini

Doc Tracy's picture
Doc Tracy

I figured a pullman pan might work well for this recipe since it's covered. Plus, it will fit well in the RV oven. Let me know if you think that's a bad idea. I'm going to try it next week when I get the pan. If it's a good bread I'll bake a second one to send to my friend in TX. He lived in Denmark and Germany for 13 years and misses his dense rye breads. He hates US pumpernickel from the store.


I'll be mixing up your bread spices for the bread too. Got to make it authentic! Plus, will save some altus from my eric's fav.

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Hi Mini, precious as usual.
What kind of flour is 960? wholemeal and finely milled? There seems to be a huge variety in the realm of rye flours.

Basically I do rye bread as you described (following your previous advices), with some change in the proportions. I never cooked it in two inverted pans, very nice advice indeed! I agreee with your that working that paste with wet hands is lovely.

The thing that surprises me the most is how this rye starter reacts with salt: the yeasts seemt to be totally indifferent to it! Last time I melted the starter in warm water with 2% of salt inside it and after 2 hours the bread had already doubled. I'm still convinced that there's something magical in rye ;)

I'm looking forward to see your pictures.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

do with other enzyme activities going on.  The dough breaks down faster without salt.  It gives a longer window of workability if introduced at the correct time.   


I just bought more of the same wholemeal rye flour and it's not 960, looks like it has a higher ash content, closer to 1060.  I was just looking for my reference chart but I think it's here at this link.  Scroll to the bottom of the page.  How interesting,  looks like a light rye but it is whole rye.  It is ground very fine like powder.  No coarseness.  But Rye with a little grit ought to work too.  The higher the number, the darker it is, the more protein it contains along with roughage and minerals.  I don't think I've seen it here at less than 960 -- seems to be the average in Austria. 


Mini

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Sounds wonderful Mini,


Can't wait to see the images. Can you give us an approximation of the spices you used? I think that is one area that has a huge impact on the aroma and flavor and yet outside of Austria and Germany are virtually unknown. Maybe now would be a good time to try and work out a formula for that spice mix.


Eric

BjornErik's picture
BjornErik

Eric,


Mini talks about the spice mix in this posting from a few years ago.


http://tfl.thefreshloaf.com/node/1012/spices-bread


 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Start with 2% like salt and go up to 3%.  That is what I can gather.  I looked at 15g of spice and would say, yes, that's about what I threw in maybe a little bit more.  Here's a blown up photo of the open jar, as you can see it is lightly crushed, enough to pop open some seed pods but certainly not a powder...



:)  Mini o spices

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

"I've been playing around with hydration and there seems to be a magical amount where the rye structure stretches."


Mini,


I bake a lot of rye bread of all types and your sentence about a magical amount reminded me of a perfect rye loaf I made early in my rye career.  This was before I was familar with ratios and precentages and I was just blindly experimenting.  One of those undocumented experiments came out perfectly.  It was a 100% rye with the crumb like a beautifully baked airy whole wheat loaf.  I was quite excited about my achievement but regrettably unable to duplicate it.  Before perfecting my rye technique I moved on to whole grain wheat. 


Your post has reminded me of that perfect rye loaf and I will use your information as a starting point to see if I can recreate that loaf from rye heaven.


Thanks for the inspiration and yet another great post,


Jeff

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I seem to be having troubles with my pics so I'll try here...



The loaf measures 12cm high and 19cm across.  Not Bad!  This is not fluffy but moist and yummy!


And maybe on the 16th try, I'll get another crumb shot in by golly!



yes!    I wish the sun had come out but can't control everything...

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Mini,
it's really a maxi bread, fantastic looking! The pictures are perfect.

Doc Tracy's picture
Doc Tracy

Wow, all the 100% whole ryes I've seen are dense, like bricks! Yours looks just like the deli rye I just baked yesterday! I'm ready to give this a try. I just love the taste of rye. I hope my flour is not too coarse. It's a pretty coarse stone ground flour.


Amazing bread, mini! Now, if I only had room for two pots in my camper oven I'd be in business.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Remove the handle from a small frying pan if it fits rim to rim.  It's not so deep.  My lower pan had a removable handle and the top one was more like a little dutch oven with stubby grips.  The idea was to block the blowing action of the oven fan and trap in steam so I wouldn't have to physically add steam to the oven. It worked nicely.

Doc Tracy's picture
Doc Tracy

I can put a disposable aluminum roaster on top. I can put the dough in a round cake pan. That should all fit in the oven, despite having only a few inches to work with. Might be close but I bet I can do it! I'll give it a try in the next few days, let you know how it works. I have a tiny bit of the heel from my Eric's fav rye and I think maybe another in the freezer from a while ago that I can use as altus.


Today though, I need to use my white starter which was feeling neglected. I think I'm going to do the mixed sourdough or something along those lines from Hamelman's book. We'll see.


From Rainy AZ where we survived our one and only Tornado Warning last night!


Tracy

loafgeek's picture
loafgeek

is this loaf 100% rye?

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

cut with an electric bread cutting machine.  

loafgeek's picture
loafgeek

It's amazing the rise and gas pockets you get with 100% rye.. I so want to make bread like this.  Is this due to the high hydration?  84% .. Hamelman's recipe is 76% hydration for 80% rye.  I used his recipe and my loaves are more dense.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Even if a 100% rye bread dough doubles in volume during baking, it will still be a firm bread.  Dense when compared to many other grains.  "Fluff" is not in high rye vocabulary.   The trick is to trap the gas and steam in the loaf matrix and get it baked before the integrity is lost.  (I actually get more gas pockets with a 80% rye.)    And yes, hydration is the key.  Knowing your starter is very important.   Adding altus helps too.

The whole reason for this formula was to make a high rye loaf simple and flavourful and reasonably as airy as rye can be without the time and envolvement of a 3 or 4 step process.  I consider the elaboration of the starter one step and the mixing of the dough the second step.  I tend to loose interest if the recipe gets too complicated where there are so many variables to consider.  I want at least 6-8 hours of wet time on all the flour in my dough and I want the bread to taste good.  The finished bread should be able to stand on its own without any toppings.

Certainly I could turn this into a multi step rye, but why when I can do it successfully this way?   This is my window to the world of rye for many intimidated home bakers.   If I consider using altus as a step (it is an already baked bread) then it gets more complicated but many of us have some frozen bread or a brick somewhere we want to rework.  Crushing that brick and feeding it to the starter is a great way to increase flavour, economize and improve on the next loaf.  The downside is making a rye bread so good that there are no left-overs for altus.

I believe Hamelman's recipe is also a free standing loaf.  So hydration is lower and with 20% wheat in the recipe, it can maintain a shape without a bread pan.   Which recipe (page #) and book are we talking about?   

loafgeek's picture
loafgeek

Yeah I know it will be a firm bread, I just like the way your's looks with the holes in it.  Looks like it got a really nice rise.  I didn't have as much rise making Hamelman's three stage 80% sourdough rye loaf.  (I took a picture of it yesterday and uploaded to a forum thread here so you can see.)  His loaf is 76% hydration and was wondering if I used higher hydration dough if I would get a better rise.  Btw, I wasn't suggesting you turn it into a multi step rye.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

to make up the total flour amount helps a great deal in getting a softer more airy crumb.   Even with the lower hydration.  Get the spelt wet first and let it soak up water for the first 20 minutes before adding the rye flour.  Spelt and rye work well together, don't know why, someone with more tech.- know. can probably explain.  They seem to me like opposites that attract each other and work well for bread if you're careful to keep control over the spelt.   I haven't investigated the parameters yet, too little or too much, but it has led to many surprises in shortening fermentation time and "fluffing"crumb texture.  I just don't experiment enough anymore.   If you proof with spelt in the dough, don't proof too long, better under-proofed, slash and wait for lots of action in the oven with steam.  

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Mini, you remind me that several weeks ago I made a preferment with altus alone. The aroma was incredible, extremely intense! (much more than with rye flour alone) and somewhat beery. Something totally new for me. I'll try to use it as starter for the next Mini's bread.

ehanner's picture
ehanner

A perfect loaf, and at 100% it must be delicious.


Eric

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Mini:


I love you loaf.  Thank you for sharing.


Yippee

thebreadfairy's picture
thebreadfairy

That is one of the prettiest ryes I have ever seen!


I noticed that you did not give a specific hydration for starters. I imagine that is because of the variety of flours available and the varying consistencies of each. Can you share the general range of starter hydrations that seemed to satisfy your requirements?

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I mix my starter using my eyes, feel and ambient surroundings and what I want and expect from a starter.  The amounts tend to vary they are not scratched in stone.


I keep a firm starter as basic and back-up.  It is mixed very thick, like peanut butter or thicker.  It's allowed a few hours at room temp and then put into the refrigerator in a jar with screw on lid, not tightly.  After 3 or more days, I can remove spoonfuls from the middle of this starter to refresh/feed and let ferment (8-12hrs) overnight to be used in the morning for mixing into bread dough.  It keeps several weeks. (It is not discarded until it has been replaced.)


At the same time... and it happens often I'm playing with several starters at the same time...  


If you haven't a firm rye starter, and want one, make one.  It doesn't take long, 12 hour feeding schedule... a few days.  Take a mature peaking 100% hydration starter, don't thin it with water, and add flour to make a thick paste.  Flatten out and let it stand at room temp (between 72°F and 75°F  or 21°c and 24°c) covered until it peaks and smells wonderfully sour (it smells like wet flour when just mixed).  It will progressively get thinner, stir gently a few times while fermenting, to re-distribute the food and to get to know your goop as it ferments.  It will get thick foamy as it rises close to peaking and can hold its own while you slowly stir.  Enjoy the aroma and don't forget to sniff it as it ripens. (Caution, addictive! This is how you pleasently get dough on your nose.)  A half hour later it starts collapsing as you stir, and that is past the peak, the bubbles go flat and it's high time to feed.


Then take a heaping teaspoon of this, blend with about 30g to 40g of water and enough flour to make another thick peanut butter like paste.  This one will be somewhat faster fermenting  meaning the yeasts numbers are getting stronger.  Repeat every 12 hours.  


When the rising process is getting to under 12 hours you can now refresh one more time.  Depending on how often you bake, use about one heaping teaspoon for each 100g starter you want to store.  Make the paste let it stand room temp for 1-2 hours and refrigerate.  Cover loose enough for gasses to escape and tight enough to prevent drying out.  Leave it alone for a few days before using.


Preparation for baking.   I take a heaping teaspoon (10g) of firm starter for every 100g of starter I want to make (or keep a spoonful (10g) and the dirty jar of a newly refreshed just before peaking starter.) I tend to mix it like a firm starter but just a little bit thinner.  If I want it sooner (under 8hrs) I add a little more water.  The wetter it is, the faster it goes off or peaks but the harder it is to "read" when it is ready.  I decide if it's ready more from smell and bubble activity than from height.  If I'm going early to bed, I mix it a little thicker to give it more food, slowing it down so it makes the 12 hours easily.  (There is no point in making a faster starter, if I want to have a good nights sleep and enjoy my breakfast and enjoy my bread.  My starters work for me, not the other way around.  A bakery on the other hand may want a faster starter, then by all means push it to an 8 hour schedule, that's seems to be the limit without suffering too much loss of Lacto beastie activity.)  


If you figure out the hydration, please contribute.  I don't have any more rye flour to experiment with because I'm busy using up stocks as I'm packing to travel again.  The last of my rye went to put my starter into deep sleep for a 3 month nap.  A starter awaits me in Korea.  It's been asleep since November.


 


 

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

BTW,  I found these steam ovens just for you  :)


http://www.twenga.de/dir-Haushaltsgeraete,Backoefen-und-Zubehoer,Dampfbackofen


 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

They sure are a pricey bunch!  


I got quite a deal in Korea, dispite the fact that I can't read the instruction book and all the buttons are written in Korean.   Everytime I go back to it, it takes me a few days to remember the basics.  My husband doesn't even use the oven when I'm gone.  He wanted me to buy the one with the mirowave built in as well but I was worried I would zap a loaf instead of baking it.  It is tricky enough trying to figure out if I have steam or not, convection or not, and I don't know if I can turn on just lower or upper heat.  I can look at the pictures of food and take a wild guess.  I found the dough proofing setting by accident.  And strange enough, a few typos! 


In Austria, I have, believe it or not, an Amana Oven under the "Perfekt" line.  When I purchased it, the sales lady said it was a "no name" brand.  "Oh really?"  I matter of factly replied, trying not to show the twinkle in my eyes.  I took it off their hands, morbidly discounted.   It is a wall model, convection, all the oven combos and simple nobs and timer, comparable with a Miele.  Only draw back is that it takes a long time to pre-heat for its size and a Miele is better insulated.  I do better with convection and a bread capsule.  It is more economical too.


Yesterday I was baking spelt buns and decided to pour a little water between the parchment and the baking tray, sort of "floating the buns" to try a different steaming approach.  Well I rotated the pan and let the steam out of the oven, did get a good rise, but when I checked to see if the buns were brown on the bottom,  the little buns stuck to the parchment.  Got flat bottoms that way.  They browned nicely for I left them in for another 5 min. because of the sticking.   The buns did come off but not as easily as they should have.  One bun tore in half as I pulled on it with the oven mitt.  Oops!  I then slid the whole sheet of parchment to the cooling rack and pulled them easily off later.  Chalk that up to parchment peculiarities! 


I am still enjoying the last of this Rye in the toppy top most photo.  It was a big loaf!   The photo shows it lighter in colour than it really is.  The flavour is so nutty rich and the crumb has not dried out yet.  Lovely with just a scrape of butter.  No signs of invading anything on any surface.   It wouldn't surprise me if my overnight starter was also 84% hydration.  I will check on that after Ground Hog's day.


Mini

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Mini,
do you see your firm starter more active and yeast-rich than the "liquid" one? I supposed you do or you wouldn't do it, but just to play safe I'm asking... ;)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I started out with a liquid starter, most of us do when we start out, demanding little starter... always hungry and easy to spill and slop around! 


I converted to a firm starter after seeing JMonkey's articles on firm starters.  That first firm starter seemed much more stable and seemed to take care of itself.  I could break the chains that demanded so much attention.   I fell in love and haven't looked back.  


I think of water as a mode of beastie transportation.  I use it the way I want to but water does create empty spaces between the food and the beasts (the yeasts are very capable of reaching the food, but the LABs tend to let the food come to them.)  It's the amount of flour that feeds the beasts not the amount of water.  A big jar of water that contains one cup of flour and 1 million beasts is equal to a small jar of water that contains a cup of flour and 1 million beasts.  More liquid does not mean more yeast.  Increasing the flour provides more food and the numbers increase as a natural reaction to an abundant food supply.  More flour and activity (the starter matures within a 8-12 hour time frame) means more yeasts.


If the starter uses less water, it does have a direct relationship to dough formation... more water or liquid must be added to a dough recipe just to have enough water to make the flour come together.  In using a more liquid starter, little or no water is added in the dough recipe.     ...Always something more to think about... 


Mini

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb
Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I don't see all the pictures that used to be in there.  There might be an older article on firm starters as well.  I am always amazed by all the wonderful contributions from so many people.  

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

The aroma coming out of this changeling starter is heavenly!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

comes second to bread spice sniffing...  LOL (wickedly)

thebreadfairy's picture
thebreadfairy

I appreciate your rich description of your starter process. You are so much more of an intuitive baker than I am at this point that I learn a lot from your approach. I have been using a "George Greenstein" derived 100% rye sour for most of my rye baking, and it will be an interesting challenge to try your methodology.


Jessica

sybram's picture
sybram

Mini, would a cast iron dutch oven work for this bread?  They get so hot, I just didn't know.


Syb

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Cast iron tends to burn stuff when it's pre-heated.  Two cast iron frying pans would also work if they fit together well.  I used a cold oven, most pans or casserole will work.  As the iron heats up, the dough rises and the iron transfers heat to the dough to bake it.  It may take an extra 30 minutes or so, just add it to the baking time (and subtract from the final proofing time to prevent over-proofing.) 


That is why the cover is so important, it not only traps in steam but also prevents the top of the dough from drying and baking before the rest of the dough.  If left open (with convection or upper heat element on) a hard crust would develop and it would brown or burn before the bottom finished baking, resulting in a stunted loaf with a light raw bottom.


Mini

sybram's picture
sybram

Thanks, Mini.  I'm trying to work up the self confidence to try your 100% Rye.  I've done only one rye formula before, and it turned out a dismal mess.  Of course, I had no idea you treated rye any differently than regular bread flour.  You make it sound so easy.  Soon.


Syb

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

That first experience with rye must have driven you crazy.  It acts more like it doesn't want to be confused with wheat at all.   But with wet hands this sticks stuff can be tamed.

LindyD's picture
LindyD

And it would make a magnificant birthday rye!


That's one amazing bread, Mini.  Hat's off to you.


Am going to have to study your formula and technique.  I can envision a slice filled with toasted tasty seeds.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Roll it in seeds too and let me know how it comes out!  I hope you try this.  It really is quite simple.


I could pack this full of fruit too...  figs, dried cranberries, cherries, dates and nuts...  a wonderful fruit cake it would make... soaking the fruit first in rum... lower the oven temp... brushing the fresh baked loaf with orange marmelade.   Maybe in the fall...


Mini

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Truly a super surprise and Thank You Floyd!  Oh my! Oh my! Oh my!  My beasties thank you too!


Mini


 

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Mini,


So happy to see you on the front page. You are one of our most skilled contributors and this thread in particular is loaded with great information. You have spoken eloquently about how to accomplish a complicated bread. Thank you.


Eric

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