The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts
  • Pin It
nevada home's picture

Looking for advice for equipment for baking at home

November 13, 2015 - 7:22pm -- nevada home

I enjoy baking, and I've done a bit of everything just for my own family over the years.  As much as I appreciate bread, I haven't always taken the time to make it myself.  I thought I'd try a bread machine to see if I would like it.  Now I'm considering if I want a mixer, and I'm looking for advice.

dobie's picture

What is Wheat?

November 13, 2015 - 4:09pm -- dobie

Are all grasses essentially Wheat?

Are barley, rye, kamut and spelt all grasses (I suppose they must be), and are therefore Wheat?

Is rice a grass, and if so, is it a Wheat?

Are there any other usefull (to human nutrition and  thus, baking) grasses or Wheats not mentioned?

Thanks in advance,


bikeprof's picture

Parchment Problems

November 13, 2015 - 3:57pm -- bikeprof

Parchment can be a real boon in working with high hydration doughs, but I've had a number of bad experiences in which the parchment gets REALLY welded onto the bottom of my loaves.  No chance peeling it off.

I don't have the information on the brand/type of parchment I've had problems with, so I'm wondering if others have had this experience, and if there are better/worse choices out there...

Anne-Marie B's picture
Anne-Marie B

A simple sourdough with 50% whole wheat flour and 50% whole dark rye. With all that dark rye it tastes a bit like a pumpernickel. I had it rising in the fridge overnight again. It looks a bit like erosion, but very tasty.

dabrownman's picture

Old school NY bagels

One of our favorite things to do with bread is to make them the ‘old school’ way.  You can bread using sourdough made from scratch for that bake like a pumpernickel or you can use an old school method not used much anymore too.  Another fun thing about bread is to take old school and make it current and edgy.


That is what these bagels are all about.  They are made the way they once were, are smaller than the monster cake bagels so popular today.  They are healthy with over 50% whole grains most - of them sprouted.


They have the 4 ancient whole grains too:  Kamut, spelt, emmer and einkorn along with oat, wheat, rye and barley.  Some new, including yeast water, to go with the old makes for an old school bagel that you couldn’t get way back when or even now if you don’t make then yourself .


The 2 levains were built on a heating pad separately over (3) 4 hour stages and then retarded for 24 hours.  The YW levain was built with the whole emmer and einkorn non-sprouted grains and is perfect for opening a dense crumb and cutting the sour a bit.  The SD levain was made from 10 g of 24 week retarded rye starter and was fed the 20% hard bits from the sprouted 6 other whole grains.


Bagels require a different method than most other non enriched breads.  It is too stiff to knead properly in my KA and slap and folds are out of the question.  Normally, a white bagel recipe might come in at 53% hydration but since these had over 50% whole grains we upped the hydration to near 60% which still felt just aas stiff an white bagel recipe.


Since most of the water is in the dual levains there isn’t enough to properly hydrate the dough for an autolyse.  So we added the levains, after they had warmed up for 2 hours on the heating pad, to the dough flour, barley malt syrup and dough water.  We mixed it into a ball and then sprinkled the pink Himalayan sea salt on top and let the dough rest for 30 minutes.


This gets the fermentation process going pretty fast with the salt not in the nix. Once the salt gets mixed in we did 8 minutes of old school kneading by hand.  Thos is the only bread we still use this old school kneading method to develop the gluten,  After a 30 minute rest  we did 2 more minutes of kneading and then let the dough rest for 30 more minutes.


We then portioned out the dough into 6 equal weights and formed a tapered rope like a baguette for each and let them rest for 10 minutes under a damp towel before forming the bagel over the knuckles the old school way.  Each bagel was placed on a corn meal dusted piece of parchment paper on a baking tray.


We then bagged the bagels in a trash can liner and left them on the heating pad to ferment for an hour before placing the bag in the fridge for an 18 hour retard.   Once the bagels came out of the fridge we put the bag on the heating pad for 2 hours to finish proofing before placing them in near boiling water.


The water had a tablespoon of baking soda, 1T of barley malt syrup and 1/2 T of molasses in it to mimic lye.  We soaked the bagels for 30 seconds each side in the water before placing them round side down on a kitchen  towel and then into the seed mix to coat.


Don't forget the SD biscuits and the grilled salmon dinner.

After coating the bagels with mix of black and white sesame, black and white  poppy with caraway, basil and oregano seeds and Kosher salt, they went back onto the parchment on a baking tray and then into the 425 F preheated oven with Mega Steam for 8 minutes of steam.  Once the steam came out the temperature was turned down to 400 F convection this time  - for 10 more minutes of baking before being removed to the cooling rack.


Or the apple crisp

The bagels puffed themselves up in the heat and browned well enough.  The bagels came u out NY style with a thin, crispy crust while the crumb was fairly open but all chewy in the wonderful way only a bagel can provide.


Best of all these were the best tasting bagels I’ve ever made and that is saying something. The perfect mach of old and new that is hearty, healthy and nutritious.  Just great, even un-toasted with a schmear and Nova Lox for lunch – yummy!  

And then there is Lucy's salad


3 Stage SD Levain Build

Build 1

Build 2

 Build 3



24 Week Retarded Rye Sour






20% Extraction Sprouted 6 Grain






Whole Emmer and Einkorn






Water & YW 50/50


















Levain Totals






Whole Emmer & Einkorn & 20% Ext Sprouted Bran






Water & YW 50/50






Levain Hydration






% Prefermented  Flour












Dough Flour






80%  Ext. Sprouted 6 Grain






Winco Hi Gluten






Total Dough Flour


















Dough Water












Total Flour w/ Starter & Scald












Barley Malt Syrup












Hydration with Starters






Total Weight


6 @ 125










% Whole & Sprouted Grain












Sprouted 6 grains used were spelt






wheat, rye, Kamut, oat and barley







Diane's picture

Wanted: Bread Buddies for 45 Loaves We Love

November 13, 2015 - 11:25am -- Diane

This is a crazy idea, I know.  But ever since I looked at Saveur's article American Bread:  45 Loaves We Love, I decided that I MUST try to approximate all 45 loaves based on the photographs and brief descriptions. 

I consider myself an advanced home bread baker.  I use minimum yeast or SD to tease out flavor. Metric only. 

I bake bread several times a week. This week was seeded batards, honey whole wheat raisin swirl, and  a slightly sweet Viennese.  I have a fougasse dough patiently waiting for me to get off the computer. 

PetraR's picture



Right now my families fav. bread.


250g  Starter * 50g Rye Starter fed with 100g water and 100g bread flour *

200g Rye Flour

500g Bread flour

1 handful Walnuts crushed smaller 

360m Water

15g Salt

2 Tbsp Rapeseed Oil


My Starter lives in the fridge, I take 50g out and feed with 100g water and 100g bread flour.

Let it sit for 12 hours.

Add the water to your starter, add your oil and and your flours and walnuts

Knead it for a couple of minutes and let it sit for 30 minutes.

Add your salt and knead it by hand for 10 minutes until nice and soft and as elastic as it can be * Rye flour does not like to be elastic, the lazy bugger lol *

* I use my Kmix on 1 and mix for about 8 minutes.*

Form to a ball and add into a lightly oiled bowl.

Cover with plastic wrap and let it sit to double in volume * it takes4-6 hours for me depending on the temperature in the kitchen. *

Gently take it out of the bowl and degas , form to a ball  * gently does it * and make sure that it is a nice tight ball.

Put in your banneton * I put some wholewheat flour in mine with some cornstarch added last *

Cover and either let it almost double in size on the counter or in the fridge overnight.

Bake in your dutch oven at 250 C for 30 minutes with the lid on , take the lid of and bake on 200C for another 20 minutes.


VERY nice with unsalted butter and cheese or anything really.



Subscribe to The Fresh Loaf RSS