The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts
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alfanso's picture

I recently came across PiPs’ 100% WW batards and had a go at it, with a lot of success.  Now that I’ve discovered the quality of what PiPs does, I took a gander at some other breads of his. This time I decided on his 40% rye with caraway seeds.

What I notice, also being new to any dough with a significant amount of rye, is that once the dough has proofed, there appears to be very little oven spring after that.  Also that the bread crust itself seems hard pressed to take on dark coloration.  Using standard bread flour and adding 7 grams of IDY to the 1500g mix, there is a lot of formula similarity to David Snyder's version of the Jewish Deli Rye that I baked a few weeks ago – my first foray into rye breads.

The rye was not difficult to handle.  Quite sticky during the initial pinch and fold, but then very manageable during the French Folds.  Divide and shaping was a breeze in terms of the cooperativeness of the dough.  There was also zero sticking to the couche upon transfer to the oven peel.

New for me this time out:

  • using a chevron score on dough.
  • using a couche for the proof instead of on parchment for rye dough.
  • proofing the shaped dough seam side up.
  • dropping the oven temp mid bake so precipitously – from 450dF to 400dF per PiPs’ instructions.

Corrections for next time:

  • give the dough a shower of raw flour just before scoring.  The rustic look, one I typically shy away from, will “hide” some of lack of deep crust color in this bread.
  • OR dose the finished batards with that same Jewish Deli Rye cornstarch glaze and then shower the top with more caraway seeds and a sprinkle of sea salt.  Yeah!  That's the ticket!!
  • exert more care in shaping the batards – there seems to be little self-correction from the dough itself.  Flaws in the shape will be obvious in the finished product.
  • perhaps try to give the dough a deeper score.

Changes from the original formula:

  • adjusted for 1500g, three batards at 500g each.
  • addition of 7g of IDY for a bit of “oomph”.
  • a 10 minute rest between pinch and fold and final mixing/French Folds.
  • couched instead of using a banneton.
  • activity times shortened (as usual) due to my warmer kitchen.

Baking underway - steam just released and batards rotated.

 40 minutes total bake time, 5 minutes venting on the baking deck.


Colin_Sutton's picture

Sourdough pain de campagne - first post here of something I've baked

July 5, 2015 - 5:31am -- Colin_Sutton

I've been making yeasted breads for years, but recently started exploring sourdough.  Handling high (c.75%) hydration doughs has been a bit frustrating and at times it has felt like learning from scratch.  

My 100% hydration levain is working fine.  It's 50% wholemeal and 50% white bread flour, is stored in the fridge, and when using in a pre-ferment doubles nicely.  I love the fact that I developed my levain from scratch… and it works.

KathyF's picture

Well, the sourdough hamburger buns went over really well. I also made this sourdough carrot cake from King Arthur Flour website and everyone loved it! A nice way to use up some sourdough discard, if you have any. Next time I am going to try their sourdough chocolate cake.

Sebastos156's picture

Method for mechanical gluten development in sticky dough other than slap n' fold and using a mixer?

July 4, 2015 - 5:36pm -- Sebastos156

I love the slap and fold, it's incredibly exciting to me and I have nothing against it - the trouble is basic empathy and self-preservation. I live in a "poorly" sound-insulated apartment complex. I don't have a mixer and won't get one before long.

Tommy gram's picture
Tommy gram

I Had a dilemma about what to do with an approx 400 gram dough ball which was part of a batch 5 or six days old. The dough had served well -as usual-and was getting on the sour side. No problem except that its too small amount to warm up the oven. I have this situation when I interrupt the second half of my two loaf weekly cycle and make pizza. Three pizzas leave me that extra lump from what would have gone in as a loaf.

So I tried something. I mixed this 400g with the first half of my new cycle. I rolled it into the nearly fully proofed fresh dough ball before the fresh loaf final shape/rise of I thnk it was an hour and half before it went into the oven via fully heated Dutch oven. 

Some old dough and some new dough gave me end result a dense loaf, very nice. I'm very happy with the result.


Doc.Dough's picture

The sources of sour

July 4, 2015 - 2:29pm -- Doc.Dough

I have recently been running a series of experiments to tease out the relative significance of various factors that contribute to the sourness of sourdough bread.

In the "everybody knows" category is the notion that whole grain breads can be more sour than a 100% white flour formulas, but the relative importance of specific mechanisms by which the sourness is developed is not well documented.

victoriamc's picture

My whole grain spelt bread is made with 100% whole spelt flour, its an easy to make yeast bread, super healthy, low glycemic and tastes lovely.  Details are to be found on  Along with a couple of extra pictures of our local farmland, and some stunning wheat fields,



Yog sothoth's picture

Hi everyone. Question: bread crock?

July 4, 2015 - 4:57am -- Yog sothoth

Hi folks. I've just joined the forum. I've been baking bread for about 18 months. Mostly it's been good butI still have issues which I'll raise on other threads. 

My current bane is storage. I bought a nice looking glazed bread crock a few weeks ago to keep my bread in. Unfortunately the crust tends to go soft and rubbery after a day in there. I tried removing the rubber seal, then drilling an air hole, but to no avail. In desperation, I eventually perforated the lid with about 15 half-inch holes, but my crust still goes soft. Any advice?

mixinator's picture

How Do Big Bakeries Do It?

July 3, 2015 - 8:57pm -- mixinator

Suppose I'm a big bakery making several hundred loaves of French bread per day. Let's say I turn my loaves out to proof on a canvas sheet (couche).

My question is, how does a big bakery cover the loaves while they are proofing to keep them from drying out/crusting over? I can't imagine them using lots and lots of cling film to cover all of those loaves. Or do they leave them uncovered and do something else?

MJ Sourdough's picture

%100 sourdough Epi -- cold retardation VS no cold retardation

July 3, 2015 - 7:55pm -- MJ Sourdough

Dear Freshloafers

Does anyone have any insight into the affect cold fridge retardation on oven spring/rising. I recently made two variations of a %100 sourdough Epi. All steps were the same (I can explain method if need be) except I set aside half the dough to retard in the fridge for over 8hr. The result was that the dough left int the fridge got a better rise. See the pictures below. big difference. Any thoughts?


Pic 1: No cold retardation

Pic 2: Cold retardation


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