The Fresh Loaf

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davidg618's picture
davidg618

A couple of days ago I made an attempt at Eric's Rye using this formula

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/5076/eric039s-fav-rye#comment-25620

substituting Bread Flour in the Final Dough since I had no access to First Clear Flour

Specifically: 

I built a Rye starter with three progressive builds over 24 hours, 2:1:1 with the following results

Build 1: 20g seed starter, 10g Whole Rye, 10g Water; the seed starter all white Bread flour, 100% Hydration

Build 2: 40g (build 1), 20g Whole Rye, 20g Water

Build 3: 80g (build 2), 40g White Rye, 40g Water

From this I used 100g of the Rye Starter + 275g White Rye + 275g Water for the sponge. I put the sponge in the proofing box (82°F) for three hours, then placed it in the wine coller (54°F) over night for 12 hours.

The next day I mixed the final dough in accordance with Eric's instructions, using Bread flour instead of First Clear flour as mentioned earlier.

I bulk fermented the dough for three hours at 82°F. It double in volume.

I shaped 1 Boule, and one Batard. The boule was 100g lighter than the batard.

I baked them at 400°F for 35 mins. Internal temperature was 198°F when I removed them. I didn't use steam, but I sprayed the loaves with water every minute, for the first 10 mins. I glazed them with the cornstarch glaze prescribed. I gave them two coats of the glaze.

Here is a photo of the crust and crumb

This dough behaved unlike any rye dough I've ever baked before, although I'm not an accomplished rye bread baker. In fact, I started with Eric's Deli rye because I'm on a quest to improve my rye dough handling/baking skills.

Specifically:

This bread doesn't have a rye flavor! I put ten percent Whole Rye in my "go-to" sourdough bread. This bread has 2% Whole Rye and 27% White Rye, yet it has no more Rye flavor.

The crumb appears fully developed. The crumb appears more open than other examples of Eric's rye pictured on TFL, but didn't surprise me: the dough is 73% Hydrated, and contains 71% bread flour. The crust is lighter than I expected even though it baked at a temperture higher than Eric's specified 370°F but at the mid-point (35 mins of his 30 to 40 min. estimate.)

The glaze was absorbed by the crust--both coats. This really surprised me because I've used cornstarch glaze before (Secret's of a Jewish Baker deli Rye) with high gloss results.

I attribute the lack of flavor to the high percentage of white rye, and the low percentage of Whole Rye, but maybe its also dulled by the high hydration.  Another alternative is I need a more agressive, mature starter--like Varda' description of J. Hamelman's rye starter she experience in her recent rye class.

The light crust color I attribute to not being steamed continuously in the early time baking.

I've no idea why the glaze didn't behave as I expected.

And, I'm very uncertain my analyses are correct. Please, offer opinions what went wrong, and suggestions what to do next: changes to make, or alternative deli Rye formulae to try. My goal is to bake a deli Rye loaf, consistently, to match the rye breads I ate in NYC when I was a kid eating in the Silver Dollar on Broadway with my Dad (I think it was there) before grabbing the subway to Yankee stadium.

David G

clazar123's picture

Wooden bowl permeated with sourdough starter culture from years of use? Myth?

March 9, 2013 - 12:57pm -- clazar123

I have read about this on several occasions. I have seen it referred to and I wonder if there is anyone that has actual expereience with this or is it a myth?

It is supposed to be that a wooden bowl used to make sourdough bread for years and years was so "innoculated" with the starter culture that flour and water could be mixed in the dry bowl with NO additional starter and it would ferment. There is no detailed information I have ever heard so I can't fill in any details but the implication was that daily bread was made.

bikesnbread's picture

Diagnosis for cakey crumb?

March 9, 2013 - 12:42pm -- bikesnbread
Forums: 

Hi Everyone,

Today I made some chinese bakery buns that came out with a "cakey" crumb. These buns are supposed to have  a airy, chewy and stringy crumb that you can kind of peel apart into strands. I've been successful at achieving this before, but today I used the same recipe with a new bag of flour and ended up with buns that were soft and airy, but not really chewy or stringy like before. See the old vs. new photos below.

Song Of The Baker's picture

Rye Pre-sour How Long Is Too Long?

March 9, 2013 - 9:19am -- Song Of The Baker
Forums: 

In making a 40% rye, the pre-ferment sour I usually do is the following:

Rye Sour

  • 360 g Medium rye flour (high quality organic works best)
  • 360 g Water
  • 20 g Rye sourdough starter (100% hydration)

Let sit at 78 degrees for 12 - 16 hours.

My question is, if I was to let this ferment for longer than 16 hours, is there a time amount that is too long?  I will not be able to get to it until it has been sitting for about 20 hours.

John

Michaelw's picture

Polenta Bread recipe

March 9, 2013 - 6:52am -- Michaelw
Forums: 

Hello

I was in London last week and had lunch in an Italian restaurant. One of the breads from the bread selection was a polenta (?) based bread with olive oil and sea salt.

It was about the consistency of a sponge very soft, springy and very yellow which is why I think it was polenta. It had lots of olive oil and crunchy sea salt.

I thought I would look it up when I got home but no luck on the internet. Lots of savoury cornbread but I am not seeing anything labelled Italian Olive Oil Bread with Sea Salt and none of my recipe books has anything either.

mwilson's picture
mwilson

I confess, I am in no way skilled at lamination and hardly ever make croissants. It’s something I’ve done only a handful of times. These were my best yet and not only that, these are solely leavened by natural means, a first.

Original recipe found here - I scaled it down and used a lower ratio of butter for folding in.

2550111000flour 00 W 210/230   
50100222000flour 00 W 360/380 
2550221000sourdough 
20409800caster sugar 
2550221000egg yolks 
2550221000water 
19388750butter 
 
50100222000flour 00 W 210/230 
100200444000flour 00 W 360/380 
2855121100caster sugar 
75150333000egg yolks 
361120salt 
8153300acacia honey 
2550111000water 
2550111000milk 
13256500butter 
--------*butter for folding in
516g1029g%20570g 

*original recipe says to use 2.5Kg of butter per every 4.5Kg of dough. I used 1/3 butter to dough.

Unfortunately they got too warm (31.5C) whilst proving, consequently some of the butter started to melt out and there was a slight unwated acidity in the finished product. They also rose a lot making things rather cramped!

After the bake

Crumb with errors

Incredibly delicate like clouds that just flaked and melted away in the mouth!

Mamatomany's picture

Electrolux mixer-- used 450 watt or new 600 watt?

March 8, 2013 - 7:09pm -- Mamatomany

My older kitchenaid pro 500 is dying (big surprise) and since I'm baking (make that was baking) large batches of bread, pretzels, pizza dough, etc on a regular basis to feed my own darling teeming horde I've been looking to replace it with something that will last me until they've all left home.  I'm pretty decided on the electrolux (correct me please if this is a bad idea).  

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