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IchikawaHideki's picture

Levain stored in fridge.

March 11, 2013 - 7:54pm -- IchikawaHideki

Hello to everyone I'm new here and doesn't got the best english, already saying sorry for my errors.

Coming back to what I'm curious about, I got a stif levain got from my work and now I'm making artisan bread at home but I store my levain in the fridge and some times some breads doesn't come with any sour, it rise preatty well.
I feed him just 1 time per week almost, some times more whem I'm going to make bread.

cold fermetation for levain make it less sour?
  

Song Of The Baker's picture

Compressed Crumb Structure At Edges

March 11, 2013 - 3:37pm -- Song Of The Baker
Forums: 

Could someone explain if this would be a classic case of underproofing?  Baked 2 rye loaves this weekend.  One turned out bit dense and sour and the other nice flavour and more even crumb.

Photo 1 has less open, and dense compressed crumb at the edges near the crust.  This one was proofed room temp for 1 hour:

This one has a more even crumb throughout and less sour.  Proofed for 2 hours.

varda's picture
varda

No not a publishing company, or a fancy new German housewares line - just a humble cobbler's loaf and miller's miche.  

Continuing on with trying to absorb the King Arthur rye class I took a few weeks ago, I decided to  make a Schuster Laib, or cobbler's loaf.   Mr. Hamelman explained that this upside down rye loaf was probably originally some apprentice baker's error and so the head baker called it a cobbler's loaf, because for some reason, calling someone a cobbler was a big insult.   Now of course, cobbler's loaves are made on purpose, and I've always gasped in admiration whenever I saw one.   (Breadsong's version comes to mind.)       At our class, while we were making the 80% rye loaves with rye soaker in Pullman pans, Mr. Hamelman quietly put one of these together.    So this time, I made an 80% rye loaf as a free standing upside down hearth loaf.  

At the class we had to sign (at least in our minds) an affidavit promising not to cut into the 80% loaves for 24 hours.    So I can't get a look inside just yet, as it's only been around 4.   

Update:   So I had a few people over this morning and served the bread (they were expecting maybe coffee cake?)   and they liked it, so I hacked it up to give them some to take home, almost forgetting that I owed a crumb shot.   Fortunately there was a little bit left.  

The flavor was very intense - that rye sour smell that I've been talking about transformed to taste.    As much flavor as you'll ever get from flour and water.     

So as not to have a day go by without bread, I decided to make a second loaf today.   My home-milled flour has been getting cranky, as I make one rye loaf after another, so I decided to pull it out of the closet and take it for a spin.    Loaf two is a miller's miche, so called because I used my home milled and sifted flour for the final dough, and sprinkled the whole loaf with the sifted and remilled bran. 

The dough was so sticky when I flipped it out of the basket using my hand to steady it onto the peel, that it stuck to my hand, and I had to scrape it off and pat the loaf back together, so I was expecting a disaster.   It recovered quite nicely in the oven, though, and is happily edible by humans. 

The rye loaf was made with my new twice daily fed rye sour, and the miller's loaf was made with twice daily fed white starter.    For today's bake, I finally got the smell that I remembered from the rye sour at King Arthur, although much less overpowering, as much smaller quantity.    My wheat starter seems happier and more active as well, so I'm happy with the new regimen.  

I used the exact formula from the class for the 80% rye, but modified process a bit to suit my baking conditions.    I will list what I did rather than Mr. Hamelmans precise instructions.

Formulas and methods:

Schuster's Laib

3/10/2013

 

1st feed

2nd feed

2nd feed

Total

Rye sour

 

12:30 PM

9:30 PM

9:30 PM

 

Seed

54

       

Whole Rye

28

100

-55

150

223

Water

26

82

-45

122

185

         

408

Soaker

         

Coarse Rye

109

       

boiling water

164

       
 

273

       
           

3/11/2013

Final

Sour

Soaker

Total

Percent

Whole Rye

137

192

109

438

80%

Sir Lancelot high gluten

109

   

109

20%

Water

153

158

164

475

87%

Salt

10

   

10

1.8%

Yeast

5

   

5

1.0%

Sour

350

       

Soaker

273

       
           

Rye Sour seed hydration

   

90%

   

Rye Sour hydration

   

83%

   

Starter factor

   

0.86

   

Total Flour

   

547

   

Total Whole Grain

   

80%

   

Total Dough

   

1037

   

Percent prefermented flour

 

35%

   

Hydration

   

87%

   
           

Build rye sour as listed.   Sprinkle top with rye flour after 2nd build

 

Make soaker at the same time as final sour build

   

After 12 hours when sour is ripe (smell, and islands of the sprinkled rye flour)

mix all ingredients.   Consistency is paste.

     

Bulk Ferment 30 minutes.    Shape sprinkling top with rye after folding in

each corner.    Place seam side down in lined basket.

   

Proof 1 hour 45 minutes.

         

Preheat oven to 550 for one hour (plus) with stone and large cast iron pan

Turn oven off, load loaf, and pour water into cast iron pan.   Close oven and

listen.   If hissing stops before 5 minutes is up, add water.   After five minutes,

turn oven to 470F for 15 minutes.   Then reduce heat to 440 for 40 minutes.

Remove and cool.

         

When cool wrap for overnight.  

       

 

 

 

 

 

 

Miller’s Miche

3/10/2013

 

1st feed

Total

   
   

9:30 PM

     

Seed

43

       

KAAP

25

118

143

   

Whole Rye

1

7

8

   

Water

17

84

101

67%

 
     

252

   

3/11/2013

         
 

Final

Starter

Sour

Total

Percent

KAAP

 

130

 

130

21%

Whole Rye

 

8

22

29

5%

Golden

450

   

450

74%

Water

350

92

18

461

76%

Salt

11

   

11

1.8%

Starter

230

       

Rye Sour

40

       
           
           

Starter seed hydration

 

67%

   

Starter hydration

 

67%

   

Starter factor

   

0.9

   

Total Flour

   

609

   

Total Whole Grain

 

79%

   

Total Dough

   

1081

   

Percent prefermented flour

26%

   

Hydration

   

76%

   
           
           

Autolyse flour and water 30 minutes

     

Add remaining ingredients and mix at speeds 1 and 2

 

to medium development

       

Rest 5 minutes.   Stretch and fold in bowl.

   

Bulk Ferment 2 hours.  

       

Shape into boule and place in lined basket.

   

Proof for 1.5 hours.  

       

Bake at 450 with steam (cast iron method - see above) for 5 minutes

without for 40. 

       

Remove and cool.

       
           

Note that Rye Sour is leftover from the Rye loaf.   

 

 

 

 

 

Aberdeenshire Quine's picture

keeping dough in the fridge before using

March 11, 2013 - 12:45pm -- Aberdeenshire Quine

I put this on the end of another thread on the same topic but no-one has replies, so I'll see if a new question helps. Sorry if I'm being repetitive.

When you talk about putting the dough in the fridge, at what stage are you doing that? Before or after the first rise? before or after the second rise?

Song Of The Baker's picture

Rye Sourdough Starter Questions

March 11, 2013 - 10:46am -- Song Of The Baker
Forums: 

I have a few questions regarding rye bread using mature rye sourdough starter.

In using my starter for SF style sourdough breads, JH 5 Grain Levain breads, baguettes, etc.  I have found a pleasant amount of sour/tang come out in the finished loaf - or none at all with baguettes, which is what I would expect.

Recently, trying some rye breads such as a 40% rye, I find the end result a bit TOO sour for my liking.

HokeyPokey's picture
HokeyPokey

Easter came early in our house this year J

No, seriously, I wanted to re-jigg my Hot Cross buns recipe in time for Easter and decided to start practicing well in advance.

The result has exceeded all my expectations – deliciously fluffy buns, studded with a variety of spiced fruit – read the whole recipe on my blog here

 

 

kmcquade's picture

Spreadsheet for Hydration Calculation adjustments for use with starters and soakers

March 11, 2013 - 8:28am -- kmcquade

I need a few people to test out my hydration spreadsheet for determining adjusted hydrations when using a 100% starter and soakers .

Right now it only works under the assumption that you are using a 100% Starter - but I am working on that .

You can to the link and a viewer will come up , under file choose  save as excel file .

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks

Kevin

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_xic1-Lf9TDY1FWcUU1SDR5WEk/edit?usp=sharing

Mebake's picture
Mebake

There are times when I stare at my pantry and decide to be creative and use leftover flours in bread, this is one of those times.

I had some Whole spelt flour, and Whole wheat flour, and therefore decided to use both in a 50% wholegrain sourdough hearth bread. I made up a formula that benefits from my ripe White liquid starter, here it is:

Preferment:

Bread Flour: 188 g

Water: 188 g

White Starter: 1.5 Tbl

 

Dough:

Whole Wheat Flour: 280 g

Whole Spelt Flour: 120 g

All Purpose Flour: 251 g

Bread Flour: 103 g

Water: 470 g

Salt: 1.25 Tbl

Total dough weight: 1600 g

Total Dough hydration: 75%

Wholegrain %: 42%

% of Prefermented flours: 20%

The dough was not kneaded, instead, folded in the bowl 4 times every 30 minutes. The bread fermented as expected, with 3 hours initial fermentation, and 2.5 hours final. I baked the bread on stone, with a another stone on a rack above. The dough was quite soft, but behaved nicely after the third fold.

 

The flavor of this bread is clean, yet isn’t sweet-sour as i prefer, and is somewhat bland. The crust was chewy, and crumb moist and tender. In retrospect, I believe that with 42% wholegrain flours, I should have used a levain that contains some wholegrains. The bread was also baked on the same day, and not retarded.  DA, and Ian.. and many others here have come up with lovely tasting formulas because they utilize the wholegrain flours in their levain, thereby enhancing the finished product’s flavor. They also retard their doughs, while I’m unable to do so due to timing constrains. The flavor would have been better enhanced if I had used my white levain with a high proportion white flour, but I can’t resist adding more wholesome flours. This explains a lot, as Hamelman’s wholewheat levain (50% wholewheat) recipe calls for a wholewheat levain NOT white.

Therefore, from now onwards, I’ll add wholegrain flours to my levain for high Wholegrain doughs.  

Alabdulsalam's picture

Something not right with my cookies, sugar crystals are still visible!!

March 11, 2013 - 1:00am -- Alabdulsalam

Hi everyone, 

I am very new to baking, and this is my first post here, I am having a problem with my cookies, after I bake them I can still see sugar crystals visible in the cookies!! 

I don't know what I am doing wrong, am I using the wrong sugar, my creaming method is wrong, or is my stand mixer not doing a great job at creaming? 

Yesterday I creamed my butter and sugar at high speed, and for a long duration, but still didn't bake the cookies to see how it went. 

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