The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts
  • Pin It
charlesap's picture

Yeast and Ambient Temp During the Rise

January 25, 2009 - 1:27pm -- charlesap

First post here.

I use a bread machine for dough and baking.  The ambient temperature in my kitchen varies here in Michigan.  My bread rise in winter is a fraction of what I get in the summer when the kitchen is 10 degrees warmer.  My Hitachi HB-D102 is supposed to keep the dough warm during the rise, but there is a still a big difference between summer and winter.

Kuret's picture

There is not that much talk here about enriched sourdough breads so I thought I should try a writeup on a loaf od bread that I have been baking for the last 6 or 8 months every couple of weeks. The loaf is a kind of "Bran Sandwich" bread, a soft whiteish bread all leavend with sourdough starter. I have been making this mostly for my grandma who likes to eat hommemade bread but is not that big a fan of ryes and other "heavier" breads, she also is very fond of toasting and I feel that this bread is great for toasting!

This bread cointains a preferment with milk wich I know some people might have som disagreement with . However you can leave the milk out and then use dry milk in the final dough if you remember that milk is about 85% water thus all fluids must be lowered 15% and that amount should be replaced with dry milk.

Bran Toast 1 loaf

Step One, Making the preferment:


  • 30g starter (100% hydration)

  • 30g coarse rye

  • 10g wheat bran

  • 60g AP flour

  • 100g milk.

This is what it looks like before mixing:

before mixing


I let this mixture sit out for about 10-12 hours, until you see the signs of your culture beeing mature for leavening. The aroma of this preferment is very interesting, sweet and sometimes a bit like cheese.

When mature:




  • All of the preferment

  • 275g AP flour

  • 170g milk

  • 30g hard fat (butter, lard, shortening..)

  • 8-9g salt

  • 15g sugar

before first ferment

I leave the butter out of the mix until I have gotten some gluten developed and then work it in, the percentage is roughly 7.5% so it isn´t necessary but I do so anyways. The dough should be easy to develop due to the acids in the preferment.

I let dough ferment for 2.5 hours, wich I think is sufficent as the prefermented flour amount is 29% and this makes for a short ferment and proof.

After fermentation shape the dough into desired shape, loaf pan or rolls or even free form. My pan measures 4 1/4" X 11" X 2.5".

ready for proofing

Then proof for another 2.5 hours. Before baking do a couple of snips with a pair of scissors down the middle of the loaf as seen here:

The bread is placed in a 400F oven and baked with steam until done, 40-45 minutes roughly. This is how my loaf came out, a little bit under proofed you can see from the overly enthusiatic oven spring but all in all a fine piece of bread!



I hope that someone will bake this, enjoy and all in all be as happy with this bread as I am. If there is any desire for it I can post pictures of the crumb but seeing as this is a sandwich loaf it should be fairly close textured without beeing dense. You can find larger versions of the pictures at this adress:



Jw's picture

Really just named after the windmill "De Vriendschap" where I buy the flour.

I started thursdaynight with the dough, finished sundaymorning. Great taste, good structure. It is gone before you know it.



goody1006's picture

After reading Stephanie's blog about using instant oatmeal this morning, I decided to post what my most recent attempt was.

I decided to do my 'own' recipe and as the only oatmeal I had on-hand was my son's 'quick cook' oats, I went ahead.

I didn't take photos of it rising--just the finished product, 2 days into eating the darned thing.

Prior to this, I'd been thinking my starter was pretty bland, taste-wise (I like a good SOUR-TASTING loaf)....but not anymore! HOLEY MOLEY--I have to steel myself before taking a bite! I'm not sure if it's caused I used alot more starter than I usually do, or the addition of the buttermilk--but holey cripes, makes me want-2-pucker-up!

the recipe:
2 c plain unbleached white flour
2 c freshly-fed (3 times) starter
4TBL buttermilk powder (yeah, I 'cheat')
1 c warm water
1 tea sea salt
1 tea suger
1 TBL olive oil
1/2 c quick-cook oats

Add dry ingredients,(all but oats) mix well, add wet, mix a bit, then add oats, continue to mix till all flour is moistened, let rest (about 5 min).

Do 3 fold & stretch over 1/2-2hrs rising time.

shape however you want (I used a large loaf pan)and let rise final time, till apx. double in size.

Bake @ 325o for 30 min. (I have an older double-oven/range & use the top oven for the bread--it's very small so that's why the low temp & baking times.)

It's more dense than my prior loaf--I think I'll cut back to about half the starter, and perhaps half the buttermilk, as well.

Tastes pretty good, though!

btrmlk oatmeal bread last bit: I know everyone here is big on using weight, etc...but I pretty-much learned to cook by people who'd been at it so long, they could 'eye-ball' just about everything and it would come out the same....every time. So, when it comes to baking, I just like to wing-it. With things I cook all the time, it's very rare I use an actual 'measuring' tool at all--I just eyeball the ingredients, so this is a big deal for me to actually write everything down......and to be truthful, all the talk of 'hydration rates', etc...just makes my brain want to seize-up...but I'm also an old soap & lotions-gal: if this were soap, or other toiletries....I'd be right there with ya-all, with my scale!

sarahM's picture

A Challenge...looking for bread recipe with ingredient restrictions

January 25, 2009 - 6:43am -- sarahM

I am looking for bread recipes that avoids the following (don't laugh...) wheat, rye, yeast, egg whites, barley, rice, soy, and cow's milk.  I'm still crying in my 'now eating' quinoa flakes over this one (tastes like sawdust..ekk).  Corn, durum wheat, millet and oat, sheep/goat milk and egg yoke are OK.  Any creative artists out there who can give me a hand on this one?  ... life without a baguette or Rugbrød... sigh...


Note: Rye is borderline but suggested to reduce intake...




ryeaskrye's picture

Accolade frequency...a silly post.

January 25, 2009 - 12:55am -- ryeaskrye

I occasionally feel guilty about not extending laudatory comments on the many beautiful loaves I see here at TFL, especially to the beginners like myself.

But simply typing "Beautiful loaves!" each time I thought that...I wouldn't have time to bake.

Many thanks to those whose comments I have received and "Beautiful loaves!" to the rest of you.


SylviaH's picture

Just out of the oven...thought I would try this recipe from because it was a one day deal and I was heating my oven up for an easy pizza dinner with some frozen pizza dough I had put aside for a rainy husband and I both are housebond with the I just puddled around in the kitchen today!  It's late and the breads to hot to sorry no crumb or flavor does have some organic whole wheat in it along with the rolled oats and it has canned evaporated milk in it!  Should be tastey!!

One long slice in back and 2 slices in front loaf.


ryeaskrye's picture

Pâte Fermentée Sourdough Baguettes

January 24, 2009 - 10:44pm -- ryeaskrye

I'm not sure why, but the flurry of Anis Boubsa and Pain á l'Ancienne entries a short time back made me want to try baking baguettes...with the added stipulation of using straight sourdough and no baker's yeast.

I developed a recipe from Hamelman's Baguettes with Pâte Fermentée. This is what I came up with...

On Thursday night, I created the fermentée as follows:

davidm's picture

I'm puzzled about sourdough terminology

January 24, 2009 - 9:24pm -- davidm

I'm dipping my toe in the sourdough waters, and have a couple of questions about terminology and technique. 

I have begun a starter, using gaaarp's plan of attack, that is bumping along nicely on day four presently, and here I want to thank him for such a coherent tutorial on beginning a starter. Super.

But I 'm working too from both the BBA and Hamelman's Bread. Unless I'm missing something it seems to me that what Reinhart is calling "Barm" is more or less the same concoction as what Hamelman is calling "Mature Culture (liquid)"


Subscribe to The Fresh Loaf RSS