The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts
00Eve00's picture

Folding and bulk fermentation

March 24, 2010 - 1:10pm -- 00Eve00

I'm currently making Hamelman's Rustic Bread recipe that was posted on the site.  It calls for two folds during the 2.5 hour bulk fermentation at 50 minute intervals.  I am wondering if after the last fold, am I to be looking for the dough to double volume?  If so, is the dough supposed to be doubled in volume based on the original volume before I started the first fold, or the volume when I finished the last fold?  

I apologize if my question is very confusing.  

Thanks for your help.

Eve :)

Doughtagnan's picture

Bill Buford Baking on BBC TV

March 24, 2010 - 11:06am -- Doughtagnan

It's a good week for baking in the UK on BBC TV, last night the entertaining Bill Buford spent some time in Lyon learning alongside "Bob the baker", very interesting to see an experienced french baker handling the dough so gently and scoring the loaves expertly and tonight we have another programme on bread (BBC4 9PM). And last week The One Show had their food guy Jay Rayner handing round slices of sourdough that looked like Poilaine - baking - it's the new rock & roll!. Cheers, Steve

Sedlmaierin's picture

As some might have seen from my plea for help yesterday, the baking of this Miche did not go according to plan. It being only my third attempt at Miche making I was a bit freaked-I had looked forward to this bread so much!

The bread gods above must have been looking upon my endeavor kindly,though, because I do think it turned out just great!

Here are the points in which I deviated from the orginial recipe from the book "Bread":

-I used mature rye starter as my jumping off point for the levain

-the flour I used was Whole Foods whole wheat , from which I removed the biggest bran particles by sifting

-I built the levain over the course of abt. 20 hours at two different temperatures-one feeding it at 7pm ,leaving it to ferment in my oven with cracked open door and then at 7am out on the counter top

-Due to unforeseen schedule upheaval I had to bulk ferment,shape and then retard in fridge for about 2.5 hours. I was amazed at how far along the dough was when I took it out of the fridge! Wow! I thought I would leave it at room temp for about 2 hours, but after half an hour I hurried to pre-heat the oven and feared it might end up being overproofed.It had good oven spring and I think I just barely made it timing wise.

-I left it in the turned off oven for about 10 minutes

I expected the dough to be a lot harder to manage than it was- I assume that the flour I used really soaked up a lot of water, because it was way easier to handle than the Gerard Rubaud miche(or maybe I am just getting used to it-I LOVE S&Fs)

This is also the first time I tried my hand at stenciling-definitely to be improved greatly! And since I had the shaped loaf in a bowl on a flour dusted towel, the stencil ended up not really sticking,etc. To be continued..........

The aroma of the baking bread was tantalizing and I was really glad it was so late when it came out of the oven, because that was the only reason I was able to refrain from cutting into it right then and there!

Needless to say we all have had some of it for breakfast and it is so delicious! I marvel at how the little flecks of bran are suspended in translucent sheaths of dough(an awkward description, I know)It has a really nice and crunchy crust, it feels light on the tongue but has real great depth of flavor and only a hint of sourness.Definitely a keeper to be made again and again!

Here are some pictures:


RugBoy's picture

RPMs on the DLX & Greetings

March 24, 2010 - 8:53am -- RugBoy

Hi everybody!

I don't think I've posted before, but I figured out a way to get the exact RPM count on the DLX, and I thought some of you might be interested.  I put a little sticky note on the side of the bowl, and took video at the three lowest speeds.  Next I played them back in slow motion, and counted turns with the second timer.

The very lowest setting turned out to be 60 rpms, where the second line starts was 120 rpms, and where the third line starts was 180 rpms.  Of course, this was under no load, but at least it gives a benchmark.

boule's picture

I am about halfway with my earth oven being built from Kiko Denzer's book. I also have the Alan Scott book, but decided on an earth oven as the reuse of material appeals to me. Many friends are highly sceptical about building with clay.

It took quite a while to scrounge for the material as I wanted to buy as little as possible. The rocks for the foundation I found in the garden and then I filled it with building rubble from a nearby restaurant that burnt down (hope that does not predict disaster with the oven). The gravel I found on an open lot where someone dumped it. The wine bottles are all from our own consumption over quite a while :).

Carting rubble and live load

Every little bit of compaction helps

The hearth should be on a nice level once finished as the oven is being built on a terrace.

Chief designer

First insulation

The sawdust I had to buy in the end and it cost about $4. The bag it came in was almost as expensive.

I realised that the front part needed some work and then happened upon some nice flat rocks. The next photo shows an improvement where the tongue will be.

Heat retaining slab under hearth

I am now ready to bring the level up with a sawdust and clay mix around the slab. That will be followed with a thin layer of sand bedding for the fire bricks.

I finished the first layer all by myself and that was not a good idea. Some friends would have made it easier, but I was in a hurry and nobody was available on that sunny day. After two weeks of sitting underneath the sheet in pouring rain, I started a small fire. As you can see the clay was still quite moist. I wanted to see if the fire would burn before finishing with an insulation layer and the rest.

Finished first layer

The fire burnt very nicely and started to dry out the clay.

I let it burn for quite a while. The next day the oven looked dry, except for the bottom part where it was still moist. So I started another fire and made it nice and big. Oh, the horror: it cracked! I suppose that is what you get for being impatient.


The crack then spread over the dome. I am hoping that it is not too serious, since it does not seem to have cracked right through. That means I cannot see through the cracks.

I am planning to patch it up with some sloppy clay, but I would appreciate any tips here.

BTW, we cooked a chicken in the oven four hours after the fire died down. It went in for 2 1/2 hours and was beautifully soft. Because it was so late in the process, I had to brown the chicken in the electric oven.

Now it is August and the process took much longer than anticipated. At least I think it is finished and I cannot wait for it to dry out.


So I added a chimney and a brick arch. If I had to do it again, I am sure the arch would be better.


Some time later a friend helped me to add the insulation layer of clay slip and wood shavings. Here it is almost finished.

Jubba the Hut

The past weekend I finished the oven. Guess who did not read the book again and forgot to chop the straw. Now I have a hairy oven. Unfortunately we are away this weekend, so I cannot try it out. Hopefully there is no rain the weekend after that, so I can fire it up proper and see what happens. Will post some pictures if it works out.

breadbakingbassplayer's picture

Hey All,

Just wanted to share with my my bake from last night.  Pain au Sarrasin, or Buckwheat Bread.  I think they turned out pretty nice.  I'll use slightly less salt next time, but I'm pretty happy with the result.  Enjoy!



600g - AP

250g - BF

100g - Organic Buckwheat Groats (freshly milled)

50g - Organic Rye Berries (freshly milled)

150g - Stiff Sourdough Starter (60% hydration from fridge)

630g - Water

22g - Kosher Salt (will use 20g (2%) next time for 1000g of total flour)

1/2 tsp - Active Dry Yeast

1804g - Total Dough Yield

6:50pm - Measure out all ingredients, grind buckwheat and rye berries.

6:55pm - Mix all ingredients in large mixing bowl with wooden spoon.  When combined into rough dough, knead by hand and plastic scraper until combined.  Do not add any extra flour when kneading.  if sticking to hands, wet hands with some water.  Cover and let rest for 30 mins.

7:25pm - Knead 2 minutes by hand, rest, covered.

8:30pm - Turn dough, cover, let rest.

9:30pm - Divide into 4 equal pieces, preshape, cover and let rest.

9:45pm - Final shape into batards, place on couche seam side up, proof.  Place 2 baking stones in oven on 2 levels along with steam pan, preheat to 550F with convection.

10:45pm - Place 1/2 cup of water into steam pan.  Turn loaves out onto peel, slash, place in oven directly on stone.  When last loaf is in, place an additional cup of water into steam pan, close door, turn down to 460F no convection, bake for 15 minutes.  Rotate, turn down to 430F, bake for another 15 minutes.  Loaves are done when the internal temp reaches 210F.  Cool completely before cutting and eating.

 Submitted to Yeastspotting on 3/23/10.


Mebake's picture

This is the first time I ever use Bread flour, i'll admit. Organic dover farm's Wtrong whole meal flour (Made of Red Hard Spring Wheat) With 12.6% Protein.




 - 560g Whole Meal Bread Flour

 - 420g Water

 - 18g fine Sea salt


 - 240g Strong White bread flour

 - 180g Water

 - 5g Instant dry yeast

Soaker was autolized for 24hrs, but i couldn't bake, so into the fridge it went for another 24 hrs.

Biga Was fermented in the fridge for 48 hours.

 Both where out 2 hours to dechill, cut into pieces, mixed, and kneaded (french kneading) until dough is silk smooth. Then fermented for 2 hours , with stretch and fold in the bowl each 1/2 hour (4 times). the dough was then preshaped, and then shaped into a boule and into a banetton for 45 minutes (should have been 1 hour at least, especially with only 5g yeast to start with).

Any way, i devised this covered baking yesterday. A pirex deep dish covered with an inverted stanless steel cookware. when the dough was ready i inverted the banetton and let the dough fall into the hot pirex with parchment, covered it , and into the oven for 30 min. Last 15 minutes where without cover to evenly brown.






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